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Message #13107 of 18360  *NEW*
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Robert Jones  
Man Killed by Wolves
1/2/06, 2:08pm (Last Edited: 1/2/06, 2:09pm)

The below story was clipped from http://www.bradenton.com/mld/bradenton/news/nation/
13515738.htm

Death in Canada could alter Wisconsin's wolf debate

BY LEE BERGQUISTMilwaukee Journal Sentinel


MILWAUKEE - The grisly circumstances surrounding the death of a 22-year-old man in northern Saskatchewan is likely to influence the debate over wolf policy in Wisconsin.

On Nov. 8, student Joel Carnegie was walking alone near a remote camp owned by a mining exploration company when it is believed that he was killed by wolves.

Though an investigation is continuing, some wolves in the area had been attracted to a garbage dump and appeared to be less fearful of humans. Thus far authorities said Carnegie's death is thought to be the first documented case in the wild of healthy wolves killing a human in North America since 1900.

"I think you can safely say that wolf attacks are rare, and fatal attacks are unknown," said Paul Paquet, a wolf biologist at the University of Calgary who is helping to investigate the death for provincial authorities.

"So this attack is really exceptional."

In Wisconsin, citizens and officials who are involved in wolf policy say the purported attack will shape the wolf debate at a time when the population of the animal is growing in the state.

Wolf packs, operating in areas of 20 to 120 square miles, cover the northern one-third of the state and portions of central Wisconsin.

The Department of Natural Resources estimated the state's gray wolf population was at 425 to 455 during the 2004-`05 winter - up from 373 to 410 wolves the previous winter.

The gray wolf is listed as a state-protected wild animal by the Wisconsin DNR. The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service lists wolves as federally endangered.

It is illegal for citizens to shoot a wolf.

The death in Saskatchewan "will change the semantics of the discussion," said Pam Troxell, coordinator of the Timber Wolf Alliance in Ashland, Wis.

"People have already talked to me, `if it happened up there, will it happen here?'"

Adrian Wydeven, Wisconsin's top wolf expert, said the likelihood of a human being killed by a wolf is a "possibility, but at the same time, it would be a very rare event." State officials are not aware of any wolf attack on humans in Wisconsin, he said.

But Wydeven, a DNR biologist, agreed that Carnegie's death is likely to be brought up as Wisconsin's wolf policy evolves.

"I think that it will be another factor in the debate - that wolves can kill people," he said.

That's because wolf advocates have repeatedly asserted over the years that wolves have never killed humans in North America, said Eric Koens, a member of the Wisconsin Cattlemen's Association who has been active on wolf matters.

"The pro-wolf people have been making excuses for years ... that wolves avoid people, they have never killed people," said Koens, a cattle farmer in Rusk County, Wis.

"Personally, this doesn't surprise me.

"If you have a pack of wolves, I don't know why people would suspect that they wouldn't prey on humans when it is well known that wolf packs can take down an adult cow, moose and buffalo."

As the wolf population has rebounded, livestock farmers have pushed authorities to kill wolves that venture onto farmers' property and harass or kill livestock.

Authorities in Wisconsin killed 29 wolves between April and September until officials were required to stop after a federal court ruling, Wydeven said.

Bear hunters also are complaining that wolves are killing their dogs.

Troxell said groups such as the Timber Wolf Alliance have tried to emphasize the need for the public to steer clear of wolves.

"Now I think the discussion will be a little different," she said. "I think there will be a lot of defending by biologists and people like ourselves."

Carnegie's body was found at Points North Landing near Wollaston Lake in the northern boreal forest. Paquet, who has visited the area as part of his investigation, likened it to "Wisconsin and Michigan with stunted trees," Paquet said.

Though very remote, the area has experienced an influx of industrial activity - especially uranium mining and oil and gas exploration, Paquet said.

A key finding thus far is that Points North Landing has garbage dumps that have attracted wolves.

Paquet also said that the wolves might have been fed by workers. Between two and four wolves are believed to have attacked Carnegie.

In other instances of wolf attacks in North America, especially in Canada, Paquet said that garbage has usually been available to wolves, allowing them to become less fearful of humans.

That's a problem.

"This is a situation that could lead to additional attacks," Paquet said.

And there are parallels to states such as Wisconsin, he said, where there are significant wolf populations and growing numbers of people in areas where the wolves live.

"It creates a situation where a lot of city folks are moving in, there is inadequate securing of garbage, the wolves are habituating and ... there are many people working in these areas where they have very little background with wildlife."

In Wisconsin, the DNR is getting reports of wolves who are feeding on dead animals along roadsides and don't run away when cars approach.

"Once they become habituated to people, they are no longer fearful of people and there is more of a chance of biting," Wydeven said.

"This sort of illustrates the situation with animals with predatory instincts, but they have no fear of people and then they can sometimes turn on people."

There have been other wolf attacks, and in an area near where Carnegie was killed, Paquet said he interviewed a worker who was jogging to work in 2004 from his quarters when he was attacked by a lone wolf.

The worker, who was also an artist and painted pictures of wolves, was in excellent physical condition - over 6 feet tall and weighed 220 pounds. Though he was able to get the wolf in a headlock and escape, he was "pretty traumatized, he was not a happy camper and (as he wrestled with the wolf) wondered where the rest of them were," Paquet said.

Wolves were considered extirpated in Wisconsin from 1960 through about 1974, but then some animals ventured in from Minnesota without a state-sanctioned reintroduction plan.

As their numbers grew in the United States, the Fish and Wildlife Service, a federal agency, removed some protections of wolves in 2003 and downgraded the status of the wolf in Wisconsin from endangered to threatened.

The change permitted authorities to shoot problem wolves, but the plan was challenged. A federal judge agreed with opponents who said the government's actions would roll back protections in some eastern states that had little or no wolf populations. Federal officials were required to re-instate the endangered species protections for wolves.

The DNR expects to receive a new permit from the federal government early next year that would allow killing some problem wolves


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Message #13108 of 18360  *NEW*
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Robert Jones  
Re: Man Killed by Wolves
1/2/06, 2:16pm
In my opinion it is never a good idea to feed wild animals especially predators. In Florida we have problems with people feeding gators. In other areas the problem is with black bears. It seems whenever animals interact with man the animals invariably loose. I feel sorry for the man that was killed and his family but it seems that man was ultimately responsible for the bold behavior of these animals. I read somewhere where the victim was even suspected of being one of the people who were feeding these wolves.

I know Igloo Creek Campground in Denali was closed and has been closed for several years as wolves were getting too bold. Some of the campers were providing food to the animals creating a hazard.

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Message #13110 of 18360  *NEW*
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Robert Jones
Carol  
Re: Man Killed by Wolves
1/3/06, 1:26pm
graphic
Yikes...

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Message #13117 of 18360  *NEW*
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Robert Jones
Guest11963 (IP: 71.29.129.108)
Re: Man Killed by Wolves
1/3/06, 7:08pm
Randy here,
I saw one of the 10 Red Wolves that were introduced in the Smokey Mountain National park, several years back. It was a fabulous animal and moved more graceful than a deer.

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Message #13123 of 18360  *NEW*
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Guest11963 (IP: 71.29.129.108)
Robert Jones  
Re: Man Killed by Wolves
1/3/06, 10:28pm
>Randy here,
>I saw one of the 10 Red Wolves that were introduced in the
>Smokey Mountain National park, several years back. It was a
>fabulous animal and moved more graceful than a deer.


I don't think those wolves in the Smokies fared to well and had to be recaptured. Wolves are one of my favorite wild animals though. I love the wolves...I love coyotes too.

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Message #13129 of 18360  *NEW*
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Robert Jones
BBlast
Re: Man Killed by Wolves
1/4/06, 5:37am
graphic
>>Randy here,
>>I saw one of the 10 Red Wolves that were introduced in the
>>Smokey Mountain National park, several years back. It was a
>>fabulous animal and moved more graceful than a deer.
>
>
>I don't think those wolves in the Smokies fared to well and
>had to be recaptured. Wolves are one of my favorite wild
>animals though. I love the wolves...I love coyotes too.
>

Coyotes we got! It is VERY common to be outside at night or the early morning and hear them. Often, on my bike ride, I see them as well.

In fact, around here they warn people to NOT keep dog food outside!

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"All human arrogance and ego can be expressed in two words. 'You Should'. "
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Message #13131 of 18360  *NEW*
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Guest12054 (IP: 71.29.129.108)
Re: Man Killed by Wolves
1/4/06, 8:06am
Randy Again,
We got the Coyotoes and the armodilloes too. I like both, and have accidentally ran over a Coyote back in the ealy 80's. I thoght it was the biggest fox I had ever seen. I took it home and looked at it better. Me and my brother got to looking at it and figured that it had to be a coyote.
I contacted a local game wardeb friend of mine and he said they had been moved in from Florida (i think) to help with the carrion on the side of the road. I love hear them yip and howl at night. I wish they wern't so skiddish, I've seen many hunting and it scares the hell out them if you make an unnatural sound in the woods.

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Message #13147 of 18360  *NEW*
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Guest12054 (IP: 71.29.129.108)
BBlast
Re: Man Killed by Wolves
1/5/06, 6:13am
graphic
>Randy Again,
>We got the Coyotoes and the armodilloes too. I like both, and
>have accidentally ran over a Coyote back in the ealy 80's. I
>thoght it was the biggest fox I had ever seen. I took it home
>and looked at it better. Me and my brother got to looking at
>it and figured that it had to be a coyote.
>I contacted a local game wardeb friend of mine and he said
>they had been moved in from Florida (i think) to help with the
>carrion on the side of the road. I love hear them yip and
>howl at night. I wish they wern't so skiddish, I've seen many
>hunting and it scares the hell out them if you make an
>unnatural sound in the woods.


The interesting thing here is that you took home the road kill.......

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"All human arrogance and ego can be expressed in two words. 'You Should'. "
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Eat at BBlast's - - Home of the California Brisket Sandwich!

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Message #13151 of 18360  *NEW*
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murphy brown  
Re: Man Killed by Wolves
1/5/06, 6:57am
graphic
>>Randy Again,
>>We got the Coyotoes and the armodilloes too. I like both,
>and
>>have accidentally ran over a Coyote back in the ealy 80's.
>I
>>thoght it was the biggest fox I had ever seen. I took it
>home
>>and looked at it better. Me and my brother got to looking
>at
>>it and figured that it had to be a coyote.
>>I contacted a local game wardeb friend of mine and he said
>>they had been moved in from Florida (i think) to help with
>the
>>carrion on the side of the road. I love hear them yip and
>>howl at night. I wish they wern't so skiddish, I've seen
>many
>>hunting and it scares the hell out them if you make an
>>unnatural sound in the woods.
>
>
>The interesting thing here is that you took home the road
>kill.......


Ditto that! LOL Im like.....eeeeeeeeeew!

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Message #13153 of 18360  *NEW*
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Guest12307 (IP: 71.29.129.108)
Re: Man Killed by Wolves
1/5/06, 4:34pm
Randy Here;
When your a high school kid and you see or run over an oddity, naturally if it ain't tore up to bad you throw it in the back of your truck and take it home for a better inspection. This happened about 2 o'clock in the morning. We use to run a trap line before school every day, covering about 2 mile of a creek. He went one way and I went the other. Everything we caught was killed on the spot (except possums which we sold alive to a black man in town) and loaded in the truck, at lunch we went to truck and started the skinning process so we wouldn't have to be up late. Ons stayed home and skinned and the other went to repair and reset trap sights.

We made alot of money doing this, and I think Booga went with us a few times.

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Message #13157 of 18360  *NEW*
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Robert Jones  
Re: Man Killed by Wolves
1/5/06, 11:21pm
>
>
>The interesting thing here is that you took home the road
>kill.......

You won't find many fur bearing animals laying along the road for long in many areas of the country. When we were in high school that road killed racoon was good for $15.00 to $20.00 from a furrier. In those days that was significant. The animals were a part of the agricultural lifestyle. All things are connected with the soil, the plants and the animals whether domesticated or not.

I have eaten several road killed deer...It is part of the bounty of the land. The meat was fresh and there was nothing wrong with it...in some cases parts of the deer might be too messed up to use, usually there is plenty of good parts. I would only take one for food that was very fresh. The stygma of road kill is inaccurate as it is used for comedic purposes but in reality it is frugality and it is wrong to not put it to use.

How much difference in reality is there between a bullet killed animal and a car killed animal? The car killed animal might have some bruised meat that may need to be discarded but if you know what you are doing you can find a significant amount of prime venison.

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Message #13160 of 18360  *NEW*
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Guest12307 (IP: 71.29.129.108)
BBlast
Re: Man Killed by Wolves
1/6/06, 6:05am
graphic
>Randy Here;
>When your a high school kid and you see or run over an oddity,
>naturally if it ain't tore up to bad you throw it in the back
>of your truck and take it home for a better inspection. This
>happened about 2 o'clock in the morning. We use to run a trap
>line before school every day, covering about 2 mile of a
>creek. He went one way and I went the other. Everything we
>caught was killed on the spot (except possums which we sold
>alive to a black man in town) and loaded in the truck, at
>lunch we went to truck and started the skinning process so we
>wouldn't have to be up late. Ons stayed home and skinned and
>the other went to repair and reset trap sights.
>
>We made alot of money doing this, and I think Booga went with
>us a few times.

Interesting. This is not something that I have ever experienced.

The line, "naturally if it ain't tore up to bad you throw it in the back of your truck and take it home for a better inspection."
Is certainly curious because it wouldn't really came "naturally" to me....


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"All human arrogance and ego can be expressed in two words. 'You Should'. "
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Eat at BBlast's - - Home of the California Brisket Sandwich!

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Message #13162 of 18360  *NEW*
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Robert Jones
BBlast
Re: Man Killed by Wolves
1/6/06, 6:14am
graphic
>>
>>
>>The interesting thing here is that you took home the road
>>kill.......
>
>You won't find many fur bearing animals laying along the road
>for long in many areas of the country. When we were in high
>school that road killed racoon was good for $15.00 to $20.00
>from a furrier. In those days that was significant. The
>animals were a part of the agricultural lifestyle. All things
>are connected with the soil, the plants and the animals
>whether domesticated or not.
>
>I have eaten several road killed deer...It is part of the
>bounty of the land. The meat was fresh and there was nothing
>wrong with it...in some cases parts of the deer might be too
>messed up to use, usually there is plenty of good parts. I
>would only take one for food that was very fresh. The stygma
>of road kill is inaccurate as it is used for comedic purposes
>but in reality it is frugality and it is wrong to not put it
>to use.
>
>How much difference in reality is there between a bullet
>killed animal and a car killed animal? The car killed animal
>might have some bruised meat that may need to be discarded but
>if you know what you are doing you can find a significant
>amount of prime venison.

Oh, I won't argue the entire circle of life thing. If the meat is eatable and useful for something other that coloring the asphault then I am all for it!

It is just not something that has ever come up for me!

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"All human arrogance and ego can be expressed in two words. 'You Should'. "
-

Eat at BBlast's - - Home of the California Brisket Sandwich!

www.signatureclaims.net

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Message #13172 of 18360  *NEW*
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Robert Jones
Randy Edwards  
Re: Man Killed by Wolves
1/6/06, 8:38am
graphic
I gace the deer that I hit a few weeks back to the "Feed the Hungry" organization and did use any of it. It was a good size buck that I actually had to kill with the lug wrench.

The previous deer I gave to a black man that I know that has bad heath and a very meager income. I also had to kill it with a knife.

Most of my road kills are given to needy families, because I chose a while back to give up hunting as I have the money to feed my family without taking wildlife.

Now if a fish was run or swim across the road, then he would be committing suicide!

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