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Message #1026 of 1287  *NEW*
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Rob Reed  
The Offending Email and Bye Bye AdoptBlog
10/31/06, 3:39pm (Last Edited: 10/31/06, 3:56pm)
graphic
Marie and I decided to put adoptblog on hold for awhile... it lost its flavor when I discovered the very anti-adoption undercurrent that is out there, led by a group of anti-adoption birthmothers who regret their relinquishment decisions, years after.

This undercurrent has been supported by a few adoptive birthmothers who have become like "pied pipers" to the anti-adoption birthmothers and who are considered acceptable because: (1) either they are currently in a very open adoption scenario (regular visits by the birthmother); or (2) adopted internationally and just want to fit in (this is from my brief look at the posters and emailers who attacked me regarding my email).

The view seems to be... you either are in favor of the concept of a very open adoption (one person accused Marie, based upon the video ONLY, of not having any interest in knowing a birthmother and only being interested in sending cards and letters and pictures -- said with such venom, as if this individual was accusing Marie of being a racist)... or, you are wrong.

Here is the offending email that I sent to adoptees, adoptive parents, and birthmothers (all with public blogs and their email addresses readily available on their blogs). One such blog had a mention of YouTube in a blog entry on their main blog page.

Some of you may have heard of the adoption blog that I keep with my wife on our domestic adoption experience at adoptblog.com. Still, no happy news to report. So, in our desperation, especially because our agency does not seem to be showing us to very many people, Marie and I got this idea to create an adoption profile video. And, we decided to put the video up on YouTube.

Some general info about us:

I met my wife, Marie, when I was 13 years old and she was 14 (1983, married in 1994). What followed has been a wonderful romance where the only thing missing has been children.

We have had infertility issues.

After a second mortgage and spending over $25000 on infertility treatments, we decided for the "sure thing" of adoption.

Now, two years later (with one mother choosing us and deciding to keep her baby right when we started two years ago), we created the video.

You can find the video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Crk97pLTFzg

We would love to receive exposure of this video on your blog, whether positive or negative, as we feel that the more the story gets out there, the better are our chances of finding a child sooner than later.

Thanks for your consideration. Any questions, feel free to email.

-Rob

I have been deemed as tactless, mean, cruel, and not deserving of being a parent for this email.

I read the email again, and I still scratch my head at the vehemence of some of the responses... nonetheless... I try and move on...

Then, there is this little tidbit today, which if there was anything to show the current anti-adoption sentiment in the adoption blogosphere, this would be it.

A proposal has been made on a blog to help support a blogger to keep her unborn child. See: http://afrindiemum.typepad.com/afrindiemum/2006/10/
recently_kim_br.html

Certainly, I don't see this as a bad thing, but a number of thoughts run through my head.

First, there is not ONE person questioning the validity of this blogger. This blogger could be lying for all anyone knows.

The reality is that the person behind this "prevent an adoption" fundraiser is an anti-adoption birthmother. Her intent must be to end adoption by creating a system where there is no adoption of children but adoptions of pregnant women who cannot support their children, so it seems to me.

This is the reality.

So, I can't help but read some of these blogs with the adoptive mothers supporting it full (with no evidence of the validity of the claims, as far as I know)... and I wonder if these adoptive mothers who are blindly supporting are thinking about this bigger picture. By all appearances, they are not.

Certainly, these blindly supportive adoptive mother bloggers would not jump blindly in support of an effort to return their adopted children to the birthparents... WITH monthly childsupport checks... right?

I hope not.

There seems to be so much adoptive parent guilt underlying all of this that it makes my stomach queasy.

This, admittedly, is made worse by my getting ganged up on and bashed for merely seeking help in speeding up my ability to become a Dad.

Mind you, I don't think this concept is a bad idea, per se. I believe in helping people in need... but the bigger picture is that it will be impossible to do this for ALL in need. And, even further, these women who are collecting baby blankets, donating baby food, etc. -- while doing a good deed -- will only assist this needy mother-again-to-be for a very short time.

This mother-again-to-be's problems are just beginning... so, it most definitely is a question in my head... you help this newborn through its first three months of life... what about after?

Why is nobody asking that question?

Then, there is arguably the saddest reality for me. I am not a Republican. But, there is this little Rush Limbaugh sitting on my shoulder asking: why are we SUPPOSED to support people for their mistakes?

There is another undercurrent at work here, too, that I have seen in the past on adoptblog in the comments. The "correct" motivation for anyone to adopt, according to this undercurrent, is SOLELY to help one in need and to enter an adoption without ANY selfish motivation.

Any person who has suffered from infertility and who has not had genetic children of their own before an adoption would be LYING to you if they said that there was NO selfish motivation, as far as I am concerned.

--------------------------------------------------------
"Treat the Earth not as if it was given to you by your parents, but as if it was lent to you by your children." - Kenyan Proverb

"The power of accurate observation is often called cynicism by those that do not have it." - George Bernard Shaw
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Message #1027 of 1287  *NEW*
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Rob Reed
Robert Jones  
Re: The Offending Email and Bye Bye AdoptBlog
10/31/06, 4:27pm
Rob and Marie, Marie and Rob,

I don't understand the negative feedback you guys receive. Adoption seems to be a hot button for people. I could see a birth mother possible feeling miserable about giving up a new born child and being jealous and resentful about the elation of the adopting parents. I think deep down there would be the knowledge that you did the right thing but I believe the decision would stay with you for life.

I don't want to influence your decision nix the blog or not but I think your cause for having it was a very noble and selfless act. I admire the openess you have shared with anyone going through the process and I could not imagine a couple more deserving of children. I always thought that your endeavor for openess and to share the process was a gift to humanity.

I think that being a parent, especially an adoptive parent, has to be one of the most selfless acts of all. I think that when you are a parent that you never stop giving.

I admire you both...I wish and pray for you guys to have a child. As I said, I can think of no more deserving parents than the two of you.

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Message #1030 of 1287  *NEW*
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Rob Reed
saundrabeach  
Re: The Offending Email and Bye Bye AdoptBlog
11/1/06, 2:39pm
graphic
Rob and Merr:

I love and support all your endeavors.

Hurt People Hurt People. Seems to be true enough. Jealous People Hurt People. What a World. As you have written, it appears you two "have it all"... You deserve to. You have lived the game of life as best you can without causing harm to anyone.

So kids, keep on keeping on!

XXXXOOOO

MOM/SANDIMOM

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TREAT OTHERS LIKE YOU WANT TO BE TREATED WELCOME EACH NEW DAY! Just When Your Children Are Fit To Live With, They Are Living With Someone Else!
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Message #1031 of 1287  *NEW*
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Robert Jones
saundrabeach  
Re: The Offending Email and Bye Bye AdoptBlog
11/1/06, 2:41pm
graphic
Robert, I thank you too for your loving response of support to Rob and Marie. These are tough times to try and figure out.

To know them is to love them!

Ms. Saundra

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TREAT OTHERS LIKE YOU WANT TO BE TREATED WELCOME EACH NEW DAY! Just When Your Children Are Fit To Live With, They Are Living With Someone Else!
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Message #1032 of 1287  *NEW*
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saundrabeach
Larry Levy  
Re: The Offending Email and Bye Bye AdoptBlog
11/1/06, 3:31pm
graphic
Rob and Marie are the best and I know they'd be fantastic parents.

I totally agree with Rob. I always felt when we were going through the process that both the agency and the birth mothers held us to a very high standard. I know that's the way it should be, but it was hard to have some birth mothers expect us to live one way when they often did drugs and drank even after they knew they were pregnant.

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" I lift up mine eyes to the hills, whence cometh my help.", Psalm 121
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Message #1033 of 1287  *NEW*
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Rob Reed
BestLight
Re: The Offending Email and Bye Bye AdoptBlog
11/1/06, 4:54pm
There is another undercurrent at work here, too, that I have seen in the past on adoptblog in the comments. The "correct" motivation for anyone to adopt, according to this undercurrent, is SOLELY to help one in need and to enter an adoption without ANY selfish motivation.

You're right, Rob. It's as wrong to think a-parents have to be selfless as it is to think b-parents have to be selfless. Neither are saints and neither are sinners. Both are motivated by self-interest AND THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT (as long as they act ethically).

>Any person who has suffered from infertility and who has not had genetic children before an adoption would be LYING to you if they said that there was NO selfish motivation, as far as I am concerned.

No argument here.

Marie and I decided to put adoptblog on hold for awhile...

I'm sorry you decided this. Hopefully you will feel like resuming in the near future.

I have been deemed as tactless, mean, cruel, and not deserving of being a parent for this email.

FWIW, I don't see you as any of these, (but then, I'm not your audience). The only thing you may be guilty of is not knowing your audience or anticipating their reactions to your email.

Then, there is arguably the saddest reality for me. I am not a Republican. But, there is this little Rush Limbaugh sitting on my shoulder asking: why are we SUPPOSED to support people for their mistakes?

Picturing mini-Rush made me laugh. But really, this dilemma is at the crux of many a matter. How do you approach adoption (welfare, Iraq, education, you-name-it) with equal parts head and heart? Or should one rule over the other?

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Message #1035 of 1287  *NEW*
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Rob Reed  
Re: The Offending Email and Bye Bye AdoptBlog
11/2/06, 8:59pm
graphic
Thanks, Booga!

--------------------------------------------------------
"Treat the Earth not as if it was given to you by your parents, but as if it was lent to you by your children." - Kenyan Proverb

"The power of accurate observation is often called cynicism by those that do not have it." - George Bernard Shaw
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Message #1036 of 1287  *NEW*
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Larry Levy
Rob Reed  
Re: The Offending Email and Bye Bye AdoptBlog
11/2/06, 9:03pm
graphic
>Rob and Marie are the best and I know they'd be fantastic
>parents.
>
>I totally agree with Rob. I always felt when we were going
>through the process that both the agency and the birth mothers
> held us to a very high standard. I know that's the way it
>should be, but it was hard to have some birth mothers expect
>us to live one way when they often did drugs and drank even
>after they knew they were pregnant.

Yup. First hand experience with this one, as you probably remember, from a birthfather who was choosing adoptive parents.

The child was born testing positive for methamphetamine. This was their third kid out of wedlock. We were among two potential adoptive parents that he was considering. He went with the other adoptive parents because, according to the agency, he told them that Marie and I "were not religious enough."

--------------------------------------------------------
"Treat the Earth not as if it was given to you by your parents, but as if it was lent to you by your children." - Kenyan Proverb

"The power of accurate observation is often called cynicism by those that do not have it." - George Bernard Shaw
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Message #1037 of 1287  *NEW*
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BestLight
Rob Reed  
Re: The Offending Email and Bye Bye AdoptBlog
11/2/06, 9:06pm (Last Edited: 11/2/06, 9:08pm)
graphic
>
I have been deemed as tactless, mean, cruel, and not
>deserving of being a parent for this email.


>
>FWIW, I don't see you as any of these, (but then, I'm not your
>audience). The only thing you may be guilty of is not knowing
>your audience or anticipating their reactions to your email.

Thanks. I so wish they just left the comments as "He is so stupid," so we could have had some common ground.

>

Then, there is arguably the saddest reality for me. I am
>not a Republican. But, there is this little Rush Limbaugh
>sitting on my shoulder asking: why are we SUPPOSED to support
>people for their mistakes?


>
>Picturing mini-Rush made me laugh. But really, this dilemma
>is at the crux of many a matter. How do you approach adoption
>(welfare, Iraq, education, you-name-it) with equal parts head
>and heart? Or should one rule over the other?

The question for the ages. I preach (very recently, I may add) that with personal disagreements and critical decisions, the heart should mostly be left out of the equation (definitely a Men Are From Mars view, I am certain). Yet, this email is a perfect example of me letting the heart lead, alone.

/wonders when the adoption blogosphere will let me take the dunce cap off

--------------------------------------------------------
"Treat the Earth not as if it was given to you by your parents, but as if it was lent to you by your children." - Kenyan Proverb

"The power of accurate observation is often called cynicism by those that do not have it." - George Bernard Shaw
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Message #1038 of 1287  *NEW*
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Rob Reed
Rob Reed  
Re: The Offending Email and Bye Bye AdoptBlog
11/2/06, 9:54pm (Last Edited: 11/3/06, 9:25am)
graphic
Just a repost, as this thread is linked on the adoptive mother's blog. (Guest posting is open. FYI, dear reader).

---

One of the adoptive mother bloggers responded to my last adoption-related post in a blog entry on her blog. I suspect that the minions will be responding with some very venomous comments, so I'm staying away.

The interesting reality is that I don't disagree with her, for the most part. But, the email mistake has so absorbed her (and the minions) that she (they) can't see past it.

Her first point. Not all antiadoptionists are birthmothers who regret. She mentions adoptees. She is absolutely right. I should have included that fact, as well. The vocal antiadoptionists that have attacked me have all been birthmothers, so my focus went there.

This is exactly why I need to be aware of this kind of sentiment to research and try and discover why adoptees who are antiadoption feel the way that they do. I am not sure that there is any right answer here, though. Still, I scratch my head at the gall of this particular individual for believing she already has the right answers and can lecture me on it because she has an adopted child who is a few years old.

I can't say that I haven't done any research, though... but it only ends up leaving me more confused. For instance, I have read of adoptees who were happy with open adoptions. I have read of adoptees who were not. I have read of adoptees who wished that their adoptive parents would have allowed them to make the decision first. I have read others who are glad they were in an open adoption from the get go.

I am friends with a woman who was adopted, and I have seen the pain she has experienced (and her prospective joy of becoming an adoptive mother herself). One of my workmates is an adoptive father of two (one, in Dental School... the other waiting for his bar exam results). And, of course, I have my own sister who was adopted in the 60's (and who was reunited with my father and our family six years ago). So, the resources are there. They are being used. And, they have yet to shove my face in the "excrement" that I "make" when I ask questions or make comments that could be perceived as "insensitive."

This leads me to the conclusion that there is no right answer. Marie and I will raise our child in the manner we think is best, and we will have to keep our fingers crossed that whatever path we choose, it will work for our child.

I never dismissed birthmothers/firstmothers/natural mothers who have regrets. I DO dismiss those who tell me not to adopt. And, you should to.

Her second point. "A great adoption takes into account the feelings and needs of all of its members." No disagreement here. In fact, it was this particular woman who helped me to see that... much more so than my agency. With the agency, the "triad" issues were limited to, perhaps, a three hour period of an eight hour class.

I agree that I made a mistake in not taking feelings in account when I sent out the email. And, you know what? YOU will make a mistake in this regard at some point in your relationship with your adopted daughter and/or her natural mother. Perhaps, something completely innocuous in your eyes, but not in her/their eyes.

I pray that she/they will cut you a lot more slack than you have cut me on this mistake.

I pray that my own child will do the same when I make a mistake.

By way of reform, I think that agencies should have -- at the very least -- a film/documentary of the horror stories in adoption from all three areas of the triad (I think a live discussion would defeat the purpose... I have this picture of the woman who is quoted in my last adoption related video lecturing to prospective adoptive parents "don't ask me for my baby," which I think might not be helpful).

There was NO mention of antiadoption sentiment. I was not even aware that it existed. That was wrong. I was completely unprepared for it.

"Iím sure as heck not going to lecture to birth/first parents about what they ďshouldĒ do ó I will leave discussions of birth/first parent ethics to people who can speak personally to that experience."

I agree here, too. I don't want to be lectured to, either. I have feelings about how I would like things to happen, but I know I have very little control. Flexibility, as this woman mentions, is absolutely essential.

Point three. "That you cannot truly appreciate your transgression for sending that email boggles my mind." The email, on its face, was innocuous, and was sent to people with public blogs on adoption. The video was an alternative method of a "profile book." The comments I got from adoptive mothers in an international adoption were interesting because it was obvious they were not familiar with the profile book/dear birthmother letter concept.

I'll reiterate again (reiterate, because I know that since you read this latest post, you probably read the one discussing the email) that it was a mistake to send out to those who I hadn't "checked" out. BUT, still, I have been chided as if it was an intentionally hurtful act.

I knew I was sending to adoptive parents, adoptees, and birthmothers (18 of them).

I believed that since they had emails on their blogs and kept their blogs open to the public, that any issue regarding adoption was fair game. It turns out that this isn't the case.

"You told me that you deliberately sent it to antiadoption activists because you thought controversy would net you more play."

Well, not really. My email that said, if memory serves, that I knew who I was sending to did not mean that I knew anything other than their positions in the triad and that they had public blogs with email addresses on them. [ADDED NEXT MORNING: I did send to one birthmother that I knew was an antiadoption activist, but she posted an antiadoption video in response to my last adoption video (before the email), so I did not think it was inappropriate.]

"It was inappropriate and it was hurtful. It was wrong. And it showed tremendous insensitivity to adoption issues, which ó considering that youíre a wannabe adoptive parent ó is pretty darn disturbing."

I agree regarding the insensitivity.

Point four. Donating to the mother-in-waiting who is getting pressure to relinquish her child to adoption is one of those leap of faith things. Sometimes an act of kindness isnít about the person on the receiving end.

Nothing to add here...

Point five. "Iím not sure why you see guilt as a motivating factor."

Well, I could be wrong, but show me one post that you have written that critiques the thinking of antiadoption advocates. It has been very easy for you to critique my methods, recently (admittedly, I helped make it easy).

Still, I wasn't referencing you here. I was referencing those adoptive mothers where this isn't even an issue (i.e., those who have adopted internationally).

Point 6. "You can tell that Rush Limbaugh on your shoulder that itís a mitzvah."

I just flicked him off. That Michael J. Fox thing didn't help.

Point 7. 'It sounds like you might want to dismiss me because I have ďgenetic children of [my] ownĒ but where did you get that idea that adoptive parents arenít allowed to adopt for selfish reasons?'

I am just trying to make sense as to why you can't understand my impatience (desperation) that led to the mistaken email (and the video, for that matter... your "I am so done with them" comment came after the video and before the email). Just a guess. Not a dismissal.

The selfish reason thing... Not my idea. It has been posted here, and I have received this idea in emails. I have received this comment from both birthmothers AND adoptees.

I imagine that quite a few of your readers will not disagree with this statement. Ask.

"Heck, you think I took Madison on as a daughter to help Jessica??? Like Iím heaving a beleaguered sigh and parenting my daughter for charity? Oh Rob, you silly silly man."

Like I said, "I hope not." I couldn't imagine it... but I do imagine that with you posting this on your blog, you are about to push some buttons with this comment.

"Of course we adopt because we want to be parents first and foremost. When we talk about selfishness weíre talking about people who put their own needs first in an adoption. People who will lie about openness; people who will Fast Track an adoption; and people who will put their driving need/want for a child above the grief of someone else by, say, sending out a plea to pimp out their ďDear BirthmotherĒ video."

Ouch. Cheap shot. If I was a cat, I'd have five lives left after the last two weeks. Still, a hearty "rimshot on the drum kit" award for you!

"Rob, you just donít seem comfortable with the realities of modern adoption. You sound awfully anxious to be a parent but you donít sound ready to be an adoptive parent. You just donít. You sound as clueless and as whining and as self-absorbed about your own difficulties as ever."

When that (your) reality means open adoption or no adoption, then I am not comfortable. Otherwise, I am sorry, but you can't speak for me. I may be whining, but I think it is exactly because I am whining that I think we'll do just fine. I could go in this by just blindly waiting. Instead, I post publically for the purpose of learning from those who are actually experiencing it.

Doesn't it just make you shudder at the thought of all those Rob Reeds out there without a "stupid blog?"

And, as for adoption, we agree again. I am clueless. I haven't spent day one as an adoptive parent. For me to claim or even suggest that I knew exactly what I was getting myself into would be ridiculous. But, the same would hold true if Marie were pregnant and we were waiting for the birth.

And, self-absorbed? "It's my [blog], and I'll cry if I want to."

So, guilty as charged, Your Honor.

If anything, though, I will never accept that I know all the "right answers" because it is then that flexibility (which you and I both agree is important) is thrown out the window.

"This is the last I will speak to Rob-without-a-clue on this here blog. And Iím doing it publicly because this guy is a publicity hound so he probably doesnít care and also because Iím not registering on his stupid blog to make a non-anonymous comment. Bleah."

Hmmm... maybe you haven't read all of the posts. Guest posting is working here again since like a couple of weeks ago.

I am left with a final thought. She posts publically for what reason? Because she can't post here? She has my email (she received the email), so she could send these thoughts privately.

So, I can only come to the conclusion that she is doing this to intentionally hurt me... which, if you think about it, sounds pretty hypocritical when you consider her feelings about my email.

--------------------------------------------------------
"Treat the Earth not as if it was given to you by your parents, but as if it was lent to you by your children." - Kenyan Proverb

"The power of accurate observation is often called cynicism by those that do not have it." - George Bernard Shaw
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Message #1039 of 1287  *NEW*
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Rob Reed
Guest119330 (IP: 71.153.57.52)
Re: The Offending Email and Bye Bye AdoptBlog
11/2/06, 11:45pm
Hi Rob,

I left a message on your blog right before you shut it down and your mother? Marie's mother? replied to me.

I never got a chance to answer her questions.

A little background on me. I adopted my daughter last year from the foster care system. She is 10 now. We have an open adoption relationship with her brother who was adopted by another family. The only reason we don't talk to her mother is because she is still unsafe right now.

I mentioned in my post that raising an adoptive child is not the same as raising a biological child.

Saundra said: "I am shocked at this statement...Not the same as a biological child??? Confusing...Isn't that the goal of an adoptive parent (hope this is a correct phrase) Making the child yours period...Your real child...This is where "open" adoption tears away the old school genuine adoption. Where the children were reared to feel whole and secure and belonging to the parents that had rescued this special child."

I'm sorry but I totally disagree. My daughter is not my biological child. She is someone else's. She will always have two mothers whether she is allowed to see the other mother or not. She will always know that she is being raised by someone who is not her flesh and blood. HOWEVER, that makes her no less my daughter. She is mine. She is my real child. She feels whole and secure BECAUSE she knows that she is free to talk about her adoption all the time. Because she has a picture of her birthmom. She isn't confused.

However, adoption brings with it loss. Rob and Marie often talk about what they have lost through infertility and their wait through adoption.

All adoptees lose something too. They lose the right to grow up with their biological family. This is a valid loss, as a mother..I am sure you can agree. It doesn't make it any less of a loss if an adoption is closed.

On a day to day basis is raising my daughter different? No. But as an a-parent I must be sensitive to the fact that pretending I gave birth to my daughter is insulting to all me, her, and her mother.

I also mentioned that my daughter has another mother and Saundra said, "That is what concerns me. It is hard enough to bond and feel real without having another mother involved... What does "mother" mean anyway Giving birth or "Mothering and nurturing on a daily basis..."

Not for me at all. My daughter was 9 when she was adopted so she has a very strong sense of her other mother. That doesn't make me love her any less. It doesn't make her love me any less. I am the one she comes to when she cries "Mommy."

Saundra also said:
I respect people that adopt children to give them a real home and security and family. I feel they have the right to be RESPECTED and to feel like they ARE the parents and the ONLY parents until such time that they feel like disclosing the "truth" For whatever reason the BIRTH MOTHER gives up their child, that is what they are doing and that should be the end in my opinion. If they want to pay child support to the adoptive parents and dental bills and college etc., well then more might be considered.

I didn't adopt my daughter to give her a home and security and family. I adopted her because I wanted a child. I am her parent. I'm not her only parent though. She has parents who are biologically responsible for putting them on the earth. There should never be one moment of disclosing the truth..rather an ongoing discussion of adoption in the home. And wouldn't the first mother paying bills make you feel less like a "real" parent? I can pay my own bills. I am lucky enough to have the privilege of raising this beautiful child. I don't need anything else.

Also Rob, I posted on my blog about the mother who does not want to place their child for adoption. I am not antiadoption at all. This is a case where adoption would be wrong. Adoption should never be about coercion or because someone feels guilty. She wants to raise her baby. Just because I might have a better life situation than her at the present time doesn't make me more worthy of her baby.

Infertility is awful. But infertility and adoption are separate things.

I hope that you can take some things that adoptive parents and first mothers say and really think about them. I know they are hard to deal with when you want a baby so badly. But they are important. We know, because we live it everyday. And adoption is not easy. It is not a "easy solution" to infertility. It involves removing a child from their family of orgin and that is a very big deal.

What you don't seem to get is that it doesn't hurt my relationship with my daughter. IT IMPROVES IT. It lets her know that her mommy cares so much about her feelings that her mommy is willing to set aside any jealousy or fear and do WHAT IS BEST FOR THE CHILD. And if that means giving her a picture of her mom or planting something for her on mother's day or talking about her at bedtime, then I do it because I love my daughter and I want what is best for her. It just makes me a better mother.

I understand that you want to be a parent, but being a parent and being an adoptive parent are different. Adoptive parenting is a blessing to us adoptive parents and we have to work at it because it is HARD.

I would give a lot of thought to how much you guys want to be adoptive parents. If you do, then you need to respect the role that first parents play in adoptions, and by sending that video to mothers who don't feel all that great about their adoption decisions..that shows me that you don't respect them. At all.

-Baggage

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Message #1040 of 1287  *NEW*
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Rob Reed  
Re: The Offending Email and Bye Bye AdoptBlog
11/3/06, 7:22am
graphic
Thank you for your response... the latter section was the most powerful and resonating for me.

What you don't seem to get is that it doesn't hurt my relationship with my daughter. IT IMPROVES IT. It lets her know that her mommy cares so much about her feelings that her mommy is willing to set aside any jealousy or fear and do WHAT IS BEST FOR THE CHILD. And if that means giving her a picture of her mom or planting something for her on mother's day or talking about her at bedtime, then I do it because I love my daughter and I want what is best for her. It just makes me a better mother.

I understand that you want to be a parent, but being a parent and being an adoptive parent are different. Adoptive parenting is a blessing to us adoptive parents and we have to work at it because it is HARD.

I would give a lot of thought to how much you guys want to be adoptive parents. If you do, then you need to respect the role that first parents play in adoptions, and by sending that video to mothers who don't feel all that great about their adoption decisions..that shows me that you don't respect them. At all.

Thank you for the point of improving the relationship with your child. Food for thought.

As it relates to respecting birthmothers, I assumed that if they were in the public discourse regarding adoption that my presentation of the email would not be offensive. This was especially true because I obtained the links to their sites from adoptive mother sites.

It was a bad assumption.

I do not disrespect birthmothers intentionally... at all. The issue, though, is whether I respect them ENOUGH. It seems that I SHOULD have made the assumption that because they are birthmothers, there is the slightest chance that they could get offended, which should have led to my not including them at all.

I agree with this now. I didn't see it when I clicked send.

And, this is clearly something that I need to work through as the wait progresses. And, I will. And, I am.

Whether it rises to the "non-clueless" level (whatever that is) remains to be seen, but one thing is for sure. There won't be further emails sent out.

Thanks, again...

--------------------------------------------------------
"Treat the Earth not as if it was given to you by your parents, but as if it was lent to you by your children." - Kenyan Proverb

"The power of accurate observation is often called cynicism by those that do not have it." - George Bernard Shaw
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Rob Reed
BestLight
Re: The Offending Email and Bye Bye AdoptBlog
11/3/06, 8:12am
(((((((((((((Rob and Marie))))))))))))))))

Cyberhugs.

You have pursued your dream of being parents with only good intentions. I am sorry that such a skewering has taken place.

Hold fast to your vision, and don't let the bitterness of the vocal occupy any part of your wide-open hearts. Take anything they say that has educational value, but disregard the emotion that surrounds it.

All this is part of the Big Picture process -- for you and for the people you've touched a nerve with.

Someone on an adoption boards has this in her signature. Paraphrasing from memory:

"Everything works out in the end. If it doesn't, it's not the end."

Have a good weekend!

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Rob Reed
Larry Levy  
Re: The Offending Email and Bye Bye AdoptBlog
11/3/06, 12:17pm
graphic
>Yup. First hand experience with this one, as you probably
>remember, from a birthfather who was choosing adoptive
>parents.
>
>The child was born testing positive for methamphetamine. This
>was their third kid out of wedlock. We were among two
>potential adoptive parents that he was considering. He went
>with the other adoptive parents because, according to the
>agency, he told them that Marie and I "were not religious
>enough."


Amazing!


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saundrabeach  
Re: The Offending Email and Bye Bye AdoptBlog
11/3/06, 6:52pm
graphic
This is the Saundra that you are referring to, and I am the proud mom of Robert.

The best part of your post is that you adopted a Nine (9) year old. Congratulations to you. I know how difficult that must have been, well both difficult and so rewarding for you and the lucky child. In this instance of course the child knows her mother of birth. So my thoughts have nothing to do with your important situation.

The trouble with posting and emails and phones and the internet, actually think I have mentioned this before, is that one (the other party) quickly reads and assesses a certain point of view, which may very well NOT be what was intended for the recipiant to read. Seeing another's body language and eyes eliminate so much assumsion I think.

Call me prejudice, but take it from me you have to know Rob and would fall in love with him as a kind and gentle human being. His fault perhaps is one he picked up from me, sometimes being to honest and open which is part of a personality. Some would consider it good, others are offended.

Trust me, he is and has been "in love" with the idea of being a dad since I can remember. He is the oldest of four (4) boys and always asked me for more brothers. Never being jealous and always being so loving and helpful with the others.

It hurts me immencely to read negative unkind and unhelpful criticisms about he and his wife's endeavors.

I am glad we have the freedom to express our feelings, and thus I have expressed mine.

Saundra

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TREAT OTHERS LIKE YOU WANT TO BE TREATED WELCOME EACH NEW DAY! Just When Your Children Are Fit To Live With, They Are Living With Someone Else!
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Rob Reed
Guest119959 (IP: 72.196.234.136)
Re: The Offending Email and Bye Bye AdoptBlog
11/4/06, 7:35am
Rob, since I was a recipient of your request to post info about your video, I'd like to add a comment here to clarify a couple of things to you and your readers.

I am an adoptive parent, and came to adoption through infertility. I have two children, both Korean and both now teens.

My adoption experience has been amazing. Our children are strong, talented, outspoken young people who are grounded in their Korean American identities and in our family as well.

During the eighteen years I have been a parent, I have come to realize that many women have been forced to place their children in adoption for two simple reasons - they were at the time of the adoption economically unable to care for their children, and they were given no support through that time. I've also learned that many women who place their children for these reasons come through that time to economic stability.

My realization is based in personal experience, not anecdotal evidence or the opinions of one or two people. It is based on my involvement over eighteen years in the Korean adoption community in the US and in Korea, but more importantly in the personal history of the family of one my children.

When you say the a-moms you sent the video to were trying to "fit in," I'm not really sure who you mean. But if it's those in favor of adoption reform that protects the rights of mothers from unethical individuals and agencies who use their economic need as leverage to obtain their children; if it's those who believe that adoptees have a basic human right to their identities and original birth certificates; if it's those who believe that adoptive parents have an obligation to recognize that adoptive parenting is different from parenting children born to them, then I proudly agree.

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Rob Reed  
Re: The Offending Email and Bye Bye AdoptBlog
11/4/06, 12:33pm
graphic
Thanks for your comments.

>When you say the a-moms you sent the video to were trying to
>"fit in," I'm not really sure who you mean. But if it's those
>in favor of adoption reform that protects the rights of
>mothers from unethical individuals and agencies who use their
>economic need as leverage to obtain their children; if it's
>those who believe that adoptees have a basic human right to
>their identities and original birth certificates; if it's
>those who believe that adoptive parents have an obligation to
>recognize that adoptive parenting is different from parenting
>children born to them, then I proudly agree.

I was trying to rationalize why I was so easy to attack and malign. And, why the adoptive parent blogosphere was so quick to respond favorably to an antiadoption effort by an extremist antiadoptionist.

It was interesting to discover that I became good "common ground" for discussion in the open adoption/antiadoption blogosphere, which is why I think is why it seemed to blow up.

But, if you think about it, all it did was provide another smokescreen.

I have no problems with adoption reform, by the way. I do have a problem with the banning of adoption.

--------------------------------------------------------
"Treat the Earth not as if it was given to you by your parents, but as if it was lent to you by your children." - Kenyan Proverb

"The power of accurate observation is often called cynicism by those that do not have it." - George Bernard Shaw
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Guest119792 (IP: 71.153.56.138)
Re: The Offending Email and Bye Bye AdoptBlog
11/4/06, 12:02am
Saundra said:

I know how difficult that must have been, well both difficult and so rewarding for you and the lucky child. In this instance of course the child knows her mother of birth. So my thoughts have nothing to do with your important situation.


Lucky child?????? Oh no no no. A child who is abused and neglected and removed from her family of orgin is not lucky. A child who can't see a mother that she loves is not lucky. A child who wishes she knew who her birthdad was is not lucky.

Is she lucky because she got adopted? No. No way. I wish that she was never in a situation where she had to be adopted. And all she got is what ever kid deserves, a family. She had to wait a long time for one. She is not lucky at all.

I am the lucky one for getting the chance to raise a child. It is not a right. It is an extreme privilege.

And actually, your thoughts have everything to do with my situation. My daughter does not know her birthfather but her curiosity about him still exists. Of course she knows her mother, but if her mother was safer I would definitely grant them more access. Adoption is adoption whether it happens at birth or at 9 years old. If she is lucky about anything, it is that she was old enough to understand the ramifications of her adoption and make a statement about whether she wanted to be adopted or not. Just because a child is adopted at birth does not make them immune from the issues that adoption brings. In fact, I think it can make it worse because the child is left to wonder about her birthfamily if they are not given enough information by their parents.

Anyway, not a lucky child. Lucky mom. I am not different in Rob in that I wanted a child. I wanted to be a mom. That was my motivation behind adopting my daughter. Because I wanted to be a mom. That makes me lucky.

-Baggage

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Rob Reed
Guest119959 (IP: 72.196.234.136)
Re: The Offending Email and Bye Bye AdoptBlog
11/4/06, 1:34pm
For what it's worth, and you certainly don't have to post this, I think the issue is that you contacted us uninvited with an expectation that we would respond to your request, without thinking that that request might have been very unwelcome. It was less your point of view, and more your tactics. At least that's my opinion.

I'm not sure what you mean when you say the a-parent blogosphere responds favorably to extreme anti-adoption efforts, so I can't comment on whatever that specific issue is.

Margie
Third Mom

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Guest119959 (IP: 72.196.234.136)
saundrabeach  
Re: The Offending Email and Bye Bye AdoptBlog
11/4/06, 2:10pm
graphic
>For what it's worth, and you certainly don't have to post
>this, I think the issue is that you contacted us uninvited
>with an expectation that we would respond to your request,
>without thinking that that request might have been very
>unwelcome. It was less your point of view, and more your
>tactics. At least that's my opinion.


I wish someone, anyone could tell me why this topic promotes anything other than loving and encouraging words?! I am dumbfounded by the type of replies that have been generated.

It actually scares me that these type of people are the ones being "gifted" with successful adoptions. Isn't the world, while beautiful in its' own right, an ugly place with some people projecting their mean spirited voices along the way?

It is these type of statements that give the whole scenario a bad taste to people that do not have infertility issues. It also hurts the population that want to adopt children in my opinion.

In an open forum such as yours, tell me why any honest requests are "unwelcome and uninvited?" These forums are for sharing and hopefully educating, aren't they, whether you agree or disagree.

While having opinions is a good thing, I feel, it would be more beneficial to only add positive enlightening ones especially in such a tender, sensitive subject. Well that is MY opinion.

When you use the word "tactics" to Rob, it sounds as if you feel he was being devious in his quest for help and promotion for his wife and himself to have a bigger family after much time spent.

Semantics, I guess and how it is perceived.

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TREAT OTHERS LIKE YOU WANT TO BE TREATED WELCOME EACH NEW DAY! Just When Your Children Are Fit To Live With, They Are Living With Someone Else!
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Rob Reed
Guest119979 (IP: 71.153.56.138)
Re: The Offending Email and Bye Bye AdoptBlog
11/4/06, 2:07pm
Rob, you said:
And, why the adoptive parent blogosphere was so quick to respond favorably to an antiadoption effort by an extremist antiadoptionist.

No NO....it is not an anti-adoption effort in the sense that you mean it.

Alley does not want to make an adoption plan for her child. She wants to parent that child very much. She is already raising two children. Is she is a bad spot right now? Yes, because she just left an abusive relationship. However, she works and goes to school and she is bettering her situation all the time.

That is why we responded favorably. Because she does not want this baby to be adopted and she is being pressured to do so.

That is where adoption reform comes in. You say you are for it, why don't you see this as a good thing?

An adoptive parent should never want to see an unethical adoption. And this would be one. Where a mother is pressured into an adoption she does not want, simply because she is in a bad situation.

Just because you or I are better off financially, does not mean we deserve her baby. No one deserves her baby more than she does. That is her baby. She wants to parent the baby. That is why we are supporting her because women who place their child for adoption should do so because they want to/feel it is the best thing. It should be something they decide to do, not something they are forced to do because of circumstances.

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saundrabeach  
Re: The Offending Email and Bye Bye AdoptBlog
11/4/06, 2:16pm (Last Edited: 11/4/06, 2:30pm)
graphic
Once again communication takes a backstroke....

I cannot believe that you take so much negativity out of kind well meaning words.

You really did not elaborate, and you didn't have to, for me to figure out that your adoped 9 year old was removed from a problematic family situation. It only made sense.

While you were "LUCKY" so was she in the eventual results that removed her from a "bad" for want of another word situation into a loving safe and secure atmosphere for her betterment and/or survival.

That is what I was referring to by stating she was lucky. The word even in my life "Lucky" is ambiguous, I know firsthand...!

No harm intended, just trying to deal with your post in the most PC way I could to try and have you back down a bit.

Saundra

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Guest119979 (IP: 71.153.56.138)
Re: The Offending Email and Bye Bye AdoptBlog
11/4/06, 4:30pm
Saundra,
What you don't seem to realize..and I've been reading Rob's blog for almost 2 years? now..is that words can hurt. Words are important. Adoption is centered in loss and to say a child is lucky is not an appropriate thing to say.

Neither is tying mothers who throw their children in a trash can in with those who make a loving adoption plan.

I don't remember the other woman who posts on here reguarly, but she wrote a very excellent response to you about terminology. How it isn't all just semantics.

Yes, my daughter was taken from a bad situation and adopted, four years later. I guess you could consider the fact that she didn't die, luck. However, this is akin to telling someone who has just been seriously injured in a car accident.."WOW! You are lucky! You didn't die!"

You wouldn't do that. Adoption is no different. When Rob and Marie find a child to adopt, it will be Rob and Marie who are lucky. Not the child. The child will begin its life in loss..loss from the mother that it knew for 9 months. It will experience loss in the sense that it will not grow up with its blood relations.

So no, it won't be "lucky" child for that child and like I said before..adoption is adoption. People think that by adopting a child at birth or closing an adoption their child will never face adoption issues and that has been proven over and over again not to be the case.

Rob and Marie's child will be loved and treated well..but that is not lucky. That is what every child deserves.

And if your intent was to get me to "back down," I'm sorry but you are going to lose that quest. I've been part of the adoption community for almost 7 years now and in that time I've been challenged and stretched and had my own insecurities and jealous issues removed. Adoption is not a sure thing, it's not easy. But it is acceptance of the hard parts that can make it wonderful.

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Rob Reed
Guest120200 (IP: 72.92.3.225)
Re: The Offending Email and Bye Bye AdoptBlog
11/5/06, 4:08am
Mr Reed, I am a single mom with one bio son and two adopted sons. I have no interest in getting into the discussion about your emails and video but I want to respond to something you interjected into the middle of this conversation. I am concerned with your defensive and accusatory attitude here and I have a few things to say in response.

>Then, there is this little tidbit today, which if there was
>anything to show the current anti-adoption sentiment in the
>adoption blogosphere, this would be it.
>
>A proposal has been made on a blog to help support a blogger
>to keep her unborn child. See:
>indiemum.typepad.com/afrindiemum/2006/10/recently_k
im_br.html

This group effort has nothing to do with anti-adoption sentiment. We are simply reaching out to a mother who needs encouragement and a helping hand during a rough patch. Every parent has those and Thank God for the folks who have helped me out from time to time!

>Certainly, I don't see this as a bad thing, but a number of
>thoughts run through my head.
>
>First, there is not ONE person questioning the validity of
>this blogger. This blogger could be lying for all anyone
>knows.

Yes, each one of us could be lying. Thatís part of the risk of communicating through the internet. But I believe she is genuine because I listen to her and accept what she says. The same way I believe you are for real. What are you worried about here? Someone cheating us out of our hand-me-downs? Maybe it feels to you like she is cheating you out of a baby?

>The reality is that the person behind this "prevent an
>adoption" fundraiser is an anti-adoption birthmother. Her
>intent must be to end adoption by creating a system where
>there is no adoption of children but adoptions of pregnant
>women who cannot support their children, so it seems to me.
>
>This is the reality.

No, her intent is to befriend a woman who is struggling to provide for her children. One of millions. One like me. I am a single mother and have been for 19 years. I have needed a hand from time to time, and Thank God for my friends and family being there for me. We just want to share the love. Why does that scare you? Women reaching out to help each other care for their children makes you think you will never get a chance to be a dad? Relax. We are not going to end adoption by knitting sweaters.


>So, I can't help but read some of these blogs with the
>adoptive mothers supporting it full (with no evidence of the
>validity of the claims, as far as I know)... and I wonder if
>these adoptive mothers who are blindly supporting are thinking
>about this bigger picture. By all appearances, they are not.

Yeah, I get the bigger picture. Some day those kids are going to need braces. Want to take trumpet lessons. Go to adventure camp. Study for the SATs. Need to be taken on college visits. Need help finding financial aid for Ivy League schools. We probably wonít be around sending her support checks then, will we? But she will have gotten them there, and we will have cheered her on.

>There seems to be so much adoptive parent guilt underlying all
>of this that it makes my stomach queasy.

This is not adoptive parent guilt. It feels more like gratitude for my part.

>This, admittedly, is made worse by my getting ganged up on and
>bashed for merely seeking help in speeding up my ability to
>become a Dad.
>
>Mind you, I don't think this concept is a bad idea, per se. I
>believe in helping people in need... but the bigger picture is
>that it will be impossible to do this for ALL in need. And,
>even further, these women who are collecting baby blankets,
>donating baby food, etc. -- while doing a good deed -- will
>only assist this needy mother-again-to-be for a very short
>time.

This is not adoptive parent guilt. It feels more like gratitude for my part.

>This mother-again-to-be's problems are just beginning... so,
>it most definitely is a question in my head... you help this
>newborn through its first three months of life... what about
>after?
>
>Why is nobody asking that question?

We are thinking about that question. We know this mother has a good education. She has a job. She is working on more education (Masterís degree for crying out loud) so she can get a better job. Just like me. I made it through as a single mother and she can too. She has family there helping her too, although they could do a better job from my point of view.

The thing is, Mr. Reed, I have lived this. I know exactly what happens after the first three months. And I am telling you hand me downs make a difference. Enough of a difference to be worth sending them. What she needs later will come later. We are not trying to solve all the problems. We are just offering a baby shower. What is so scary about that for you? Why are you so threatened? What are you losing here? Why do you feel the need to attack this simple effort? Does this mean for you there is one less baby out there available?

I notice that you are throwing these accusations out in defense of yourself and your foolish email/video blunder. You have apologized for that mess so I donít feel the need to address it. But I there is no need for you to malign our effort to be nice to a single mother. Our helping her is not hurting you, really.

People who adopt should be doing it because they want kids and they think it will be a good thing for the child in question. There are plenty of children that really do need homes with new families that will love and care for them with open hearts. Single mothers are not a threat to adoption.

Helping a mother who is struggling is a good thing. Even if you donít have all the answers and canít solve all her problems. If just a little from us makes her stronger and more able to nurture her children, that is a good thing for the world. That is not taking away from the hopes of you and your wife to become parents. Actually, learning to give and trust and be generous; love with open hands, might be a good way for you to get closer to being the best sort of parents. Maybe you should think about joining our effortÖ who knows where that will take you?

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Guest119979 (IP: 71.153.56.138)
saundrabeach  
Re: The Offending Email and Bye Bye AdoptBlog
11/5/06, 3:32pm (Last Edited: 11/5/06, 4:00pm)
graphic
>Saundra,
>What you don't seem to realize..and I've been reading Rob's
>blog for almost 2 years? now..is that words can hurt. Words
>are important. Adoption is centered in loss and to say a child
>is lucky is not an appropriate thing to say.

While I am pleased that you have been reading Rob And Marie's blog for two years, I have known Rob for over 38 years counting the time I nurtured him in utero...I have known Marie for nigh on 23 years or so as well.

You are entitled to state that you feel being happy for a child that by NO means of its own choice is left to have adopted parents that they are ENTITLED to have their own biologial parents, I cannot disagree with you, That is how God intended. Face it, not all people are meant to be parents. A shame, but true nonetheless. Some people that are not physically able to become biological parents on the other hand ARE meant to be parents. Having said that...In my opinion the innocent child and the innocent adoptive parents are both LUCKY...to be allevied of an "empty nest" so to speak or of being an orphan.


Essentially we are dueling a no win situation, I think. I also think we are on the same page because we want a successful conclusion for all needing "fixing"


>
>Yes, my daughter was taken from a bad situation and adopted,
>four years later. I guess you could consider the fact that she
>didn't die, luck. However, this is akin to telling someone who
>has just been seriously injured in a car accident.."WOW! You
>are lucky! You didn't die!"


And your point here is? I am confused with your analogy because in both cases I definately feel they are both blessed and lucky...


When Rob and Marie find a child to adopt, it will be Rob and Marie who are lucky. Not the child. The child will begin its life in loss..loss from the mother that it knew for 9 months. It will experience loss in the sense that it will not grow up with its blood relations.

Maybe and maybe not. A baby would not know the difference about his or her biological ties. An older child may come from such terror and/or neglect that it will be grateful to break the ties that "bound them"

>
>So no, it won't be "lucky" child for that child and like I
>said before..adoption is adoption. People think that by
>adopting a child at birth or closing an adoption their child
>will never face adoption issues and that has been proven over
>and over again not to be the case.


No doubt there will be issues when the child grows to maturity and if it has hopefully been disclosed about the adoption will find it curious, if nothing more, to seek their biological source. Life is an obstacle. Biological families have their issues trust me.


>
>Rob and Marie's child will be loved and treated well..but that
>is not lucky. That is what every child deserves.


We agree here for sure. You are focused on a "word" which has so many meanings in each life. As in "Lucky" to win money and "UNLUCKY" to lose family and friends in the process" I really don't LIKE the word myself.


>
>And if your intent was to get me to "back down," I'm sorry but
>you are going to lose that quest. I've been part of the
>adoption community for almost 7 years now and in that time
>I've been challenged and stretched and had my own insecurities
>and jealous issues removed. Adoption is not a sure thing, it's
>not easy. But it is acceptance of the hard parts that can make
>it wonderful.


I was really defending my children, as any mother would worth her two cents biological or not. Logically I read your passion and conviction so I know you do not mean to hurt them. But you do with "words" that lack understanding and education in my opinion.


Saundra, Rob's Loving Mom

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TREAT OTHERS LIKE YOU WANT TO BE TREATED WELCOME EACH NEW DAY! Just When Your Children Are Fit To Live With, They Are Living With Someone Else!
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Message #1062 of 1287  *NEW*
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Guest120200 (IP: 72.92.3.225)
saundrabeach  
Re: The Offending Email and Bye Bye AdoptBlog
11/5/06, 3:51pm (Last Edited: 11/5/06, 4:18pm)
graphic
I read in your post right in the beginning that you had "No interest in discussing the video or emails or the blog in general" Then near the end of your post I read the following:

I notice that you are throwing these accusations out in defense of yourself and your foolish email/video blunder. You have apologized for that mess so I donít feel the need to address it. But I there is no need for you to malign our effort to be nice to a single mother. Our helping her is not hurting you, really.


I may be incorrect, but I have read Rob's apologies for certain parts of the email/video. I do not believe he feels it was a mistake to take this venue for the RIGHT, HONEST and most SINCERE reasons on behalf of he and his loving wife's ernest desire to parent. This was not a cheap attack, this was after years of trying the natural way, years of expensive medical procedures, some life threatening to Rob's wife, and over two years of waiting for the adoption system to provide a child for them to love and complete their wanted family. This was NOT a lark with them, just another state of the art way to reach out and be heard, and thus just maybe perfect their object to parent.

If you really have been reading their open blog for an amount of time, it amazes me you have not picked up on their sincerity to do "everything right" to attain their goal.

I am the potential grandparent in this situation, but I am also Rob's biological mom with all that entails. I suffer with them as the rest of our families during all processes and cannot bare to see them hurt by anyone for reaching out to not only get educated in this process but to help others in their quest as well.

My hat's off to Bestlight as well for sharing and definitely educating and adding enlightenment and encouragement to potential adoptive parents. This certainly is the better way.

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TREAT OTHERS LIKE YOU WANT TO BE TREATED WELCOME EACH NEW DAY! Just When Your Children Are Fit To Live With, They Are Living With Someone Else!
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Message #1063 of 1287  *NEW*
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saundrabeach
Guest120227 (IP: 71.153.56.138)
Re: The Offending Email and Bye Bye AdoptBlog
11/5/06, 5:28pm
Saundra said:
But you do with "words" that lack understanding and education in my opinion.


And that is exactly how I feel about what you say as well Saundra. I guess I will leave you to feel how you feel...I am sharing my opinions as someone who is knows a lot about open adoption and closed adoptions..as I live it everyday.

There are plenty of sources to educate yourself about adoption issues. There are hundreds of books and websites that teach the opposite of what you state here and what I've seen stated here for the past two years.

Perhaps you should consider taking some time to educate yourself further because it appears that you haven't. You are consistently dismissive of first families, issues that adoptees face, proper adoption terminology, and the wisdom that is offered to you and Rob and Marie by adoptive parents who have been adoptive parents for longer than they have.

It is fruitless to argue with you because you have made it evident over the past two years that you are not willing to expand your thinking.

Which, in my opinion, is very sad. No one here is attacking Rob as a person. Rob has no experience as an adoptive parent and many adoptive parents and first parents are trying to impart their knowledge that they have gained in order to help your family be a better adoptive family.

Because despite how much you want to pretend that raising an adoptive child is the same as raising a biological child..it is simply not the case.

And you will do a great disservice to any adopted child if you don't honor the side of them that will never be the same as yours..their biological side.

That doesn't make an adoptive child any less your child. It just makes it different.

That all being said..I can see that my opinions and experience..and those of the adoptive community in general are not welcome so I will go back to my corner of the internet.

Best of luck Rob and Marie.

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Marie Reed  
Re: The Offending Email and Bye Bye AdoptBlog
11/6/06, 10:59am (Last Edited: 11/6/06, 3:28pm)
graphic
>That all being said..I can see that my opinions and
>experience..and those of the adoptive community in general are
>not welcome so I will go back to my corner of the internet.
>
>Best of luck Rob and Marie.

Dear Guest:

First, I'd like to thank you for taking interest in our blog. Rob and I have have tried to educate ourselves (and still are) about adoption. As you know, not everyone will agree regarding the concept of adoption. Some are closed minded, some are very open, some are restrictive, some are willing to compromise, and some are overly protective and cautious.

When Rob and I first thought about adoption, we were so cautious that we were shocked that there was even something called an "open adoption". Because of the fact that we've heard, learned, read and listened to many different people (adoptive parents, first mothers, adoptees) about open adoption, Rob and I have been able to see different views about adoption. Unfortunately, in my opinion, there is no right answer. But, we certainly see that there are different solutions to make adoption, for all parties involved, happy process. Rob and I have certainly learned over the past couple of years that the process of adoption is not easy, and we HAVE taken everyone's input, whether good or bad, to educate ourselves to the reality of adoption.

You're right, adopting a child IS different from having a biological child. I do know that it would take a lot more patience, understanding and providing more security to an adopted child. And part of providing that security is preserving some contact with the first mother/parents once that child wants to really know and understand where he/she came from. I've numerously tried to put myself in the adoptee's position, and you know? I WOULD want to know who my biological parents are. It's just human nature and instinct.

The expectant mother who chose us 2 years ago "K" was just a beautiful person, and we hit if off right off right away. If things were different, and she went through with letting us love and take care of her baby, I did see myself being friends with her, even though she said that she only wanted letters and pictures at the time. If she requested for a more open adoption, I wouldn't have had a problem.

I have also put myself in the position of the birth/first mother. And frankly, I just couldn't see myself giving up my child. So, I have the biggest respect for birth/first mothers who decide to go through adoption out of pure love. It must be the most painful thing to go through in life and have to live her live with her decision.

Yes, there is pain all the way around... the adoptee who has lost his/her first mother, the first mother who has lost her child, the adoptive parents who (in our case) who have lost their fertility. It's really painful. But all together, I can see that it can also be joyous.

You say that your comments or opinions are not welcome here. Nonsense. Rob and I, whether negative or positive, welcome everyone's input so that we may grow and learn more about adoption. Sure, some comments have been hurtful. But the "words" have openned our eyes even more, and we've learned why some people can be so hurtful? Perhaps they've had their own unpleasant experience regarding adoption or life in general.

I do agree, though, that choosing the more proper words to express one's opinions can go a long way. Hurtful words only cause hurt.

But, please, know that your opinions are welcome and valued here. We are eager to learn, and we have more learning to do. And when Rob and I have a baby, we know that we will seek more guidance as our journey begins in raising our child.

Thanks again.

-- Marie

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