RRBBS In the ChatRoom: Nobody
User: Guest10130 (107.20.129.212)
Posts: 0
Read Mode: Topics
Status: Guest
  RRBBS Stats ~ Sign-Up As New User ~ Message Areas ~ FAQ

RRBBS.com Home : RRBBS : Blogger's Corner : Reading "Genes versus environment?" Thread

Username Password


This ad only appears to Guests viewing a message thread

Message #386 of 1287  *NEW*
To
From
Subject
Date
All
Rob Reed  
Genes versus environment?
2/2/05, 11:12am (Last Edited: 2/2/05, 11:12am)
graphic
I was reading Dawn's latest entry at thiswomanswork.com. Her baby girl Madison is showing off her amazing intelligence and quick development by throwing out words at ten months old.

And, she's walking all over the place...

Ten months old.

Geesh.

This got me to thinking about a parenting issue.

It seems that every child in the world is the "brightest," the "smartest" the "cutest." The baby becomes a means by which the parent(s) can feel some level of self-worth.

Where does this self-worth come from, though, in the context of adoptive parents versus genetic parents? The thought, I believe, is that this kid is so bright, so smart, so cute because *I* made the kid. The kid has my genes... the kid is so bright and cute that it is an indicator of how worthy my own genes are.

How does that work in the context of adopting?

I wonder how those around us who have their own children through "normal routes" will look at Marie and me when -- presumably -- Marie and I will be spouting off about how wonderful, how beautiful our own child is?

Then, I wonder if we will somehow feel less important in our child's development because -- genetically -- we had nothing to do with it.

I guess this is an issue of genetics versus environment?

I'm just "blogging out loud," really, but I would be interested in others' thoughts about this.

--------------------------------------------------------
"Treat the Earth not as if it was given to you by your parents, but as if it was lent to you by your children." - Kenyan Proverb

"The power of accurate observation is often called cynicism by those that do not have it." - George Bernard Shaw
--------------------------------------------------------

Previous Topic
Next Topic
Reply to Msg #386
Back to Topics

This message has been added to these RRBBS++ Blogs:

AdoptBlog.com 's Blog


Message #387 of 1287  *NEW*
To
From
Subject
Date
AdoptBlog.com Thread
magicpointeshoe
Genes versus environment?
2/2/05, 11:43am
nature versus nurture has been a long debate in early childhood education if you wanted the offical terminology.

Previous Topic
Next Topic
Reply to Msg #387
Back to Topics


Message #388 of 1287  *NEW*
To
From
Subject
Date
AdoptBlog.com Thread
Guest42305 (IP: 216.63.12.69)
Genes versus environment?
2/2/05, 2:22pm
the best-endowed child genetically isn't going to be a quick developer if there isn't a lot of great parenting and attention in there, too. jonathan's parents and i have a habit of getting into this fake "argument" whenever he's doing something new & exciting - i marvel at what great parents they've been that he's doing all this great stuff and learning so quickly, and they say "oh no, no - he had a head start because he had such great genes, he was an advanced kid from day one." the truth is, of course, it's both of these things - he wouldn't be the little guy that he is without my (& the birthfather's) genes, or without his parents' childrearing.


katie

Previous Topic
Next Topic
Reply to Msg #388
Back to Topics


Message #390 of 1287  *NEW*
To
From
Subject
Date
Rob Reed
Robert Jones  
Re: Genes versus environment?
2/2/05, 8:55pm
I tend to agree that it is a combination of both nature and nurture.

--------------------------------------------------------
Friends are the best collectibles
--------------------------------------------------------

Previous Topic
Next Topic
Reply to Msg #390
Back to Topics


Message #391 of 1287  *NEW*
To
From
Subject
Date
AdoptBlog.com Thread
Guest42431 (IP: 24.130.38.211)
Re: Genes versus environment?
2/3/05, 12:59pm
wE ARE ADOPTING FROM cHINA AND i HAVE HAD MANY PEOPLE TELL ME HOW SMART SHE WILL BE.

Okay, that was not suppose to be in caps.

Anyways, people do place a lot of emphasis on the nature aspect, especially when it comes to intelligence. I think perhaps that book the Bell Curve added a lot of fuel to the fire.

It seems people catagorize being smart as nature and being compassionate as nurture. I don't know why, but they do.

As a soon to be ex-inner city teacher, I agree with the person who said it was both.


Marla
the Middle Way

Previous Topic
Next Topic
Reply to Msg #391
Back to Topics


Message #393 of 1287  *NEW*
To
From
Subject
Date
Guest42305 (IP: 216.63.12.69)
Rob Reed  
Re: Genes versus environment?
2/3/05, 2:04pm
graphic
I agree that a child's development is a part of BOTH nature and nurture.

I guess my concerns/fears stay manifested in these forms:

1) I hate the fact that folks will "pity" us because our child will not match our genetics.

2) I am afraid that I just might pity myself for the same thing.

3) I am afraid that this kind of thinking might prevent me from adequately praising my child for his/her accomplishments...

Maybe I am just overreacting now. But, I am just wondering if there are others who have had these feelings (who have already completed an adoption) and how these feelings were dealt with/confronted.

I suppose that it is better that I recognize these fears so that I can do all that I can to prevent my fears from materializing.

--------------------------------------------------------
"Treat the Earth not as if it was given to you by your parents, but as if it was lent to you by your children." - Kenyan Proverb

"The power of accurate observation is often called cynicism by those that do not have it." - George Bernard Shaw
--------------------------------------------------------

Previous Topic
Next Topic
Reply to Msg #393
Back to Topics


Message #394 of 1287  *NEW*
To
From
Subject
Date
AdoptBlog.com Thread
Guest42472 (IP: 66.30.245.248)
Re: Genes versus environment?
2/3/05, 6:23pm
I have two comments, neither are probably helpful in this discussion at all but I will say them anyway.

I have a friend who adopted all of her children from Columbia. She is caucasian (not sure exactly what nationality). I swear her kids look like her. They have picked up her mannerisms and such so strongly that I have often forgotten that they are not hers biologically.

I have 2 biological children. One looks like a clone of me. The other I have entertained the thought that we may have brought home the wrong baby. He just doesn't resemble ANYONE. I am no less proud of the accomplishments of the child who I see no resemblance in than the one who looks like me. On the other hand, they are my biological children and I hope that I am not appearing callous about the feelings of people whose children are adopted by being flip about knowing that my son shares my genetics.

I think all of the work that goes into raising children earns you the right to feel like every bit of a child's intelligence/humor/beauty is as a result of that work. I believe genetic "attributes" are only potential but that good upbringing helps a child realize it.

~Em

Previous Topic
Next Topic
Reply to Msg #394
Back to Topics


Message #395 of 1287  *NEW*
To
From
Subject
Date
AdoptBlog.com Thread
Guest42534 (IP: 65.60.209.82)
Re: Genes versus environment?
2/4/05, 6:09am
This is Dawn, mother to an absolutely BRILLIANT baby! (Actually I don't think brilliance in babyhood correlates to brilliance anywhere else but I digress...)

In answer to your concerns, since I have one of each and can do a scientific study comparing my feelings about them:

"1) I hate the fact that folks will "pity" us because our child will not match our genetics."

We have received no pity re., Madison. Honestly, people are so thrilled that she's here and that she's our that it's like people think we're extra-special lucky.

"2) I am afraid that I just might pity myself for the same thing."

You might but it's separate from the love you'll have for that child. It's like the echoes of the infertility sometimes come back but I know (from my sister, who had 5 years of primary IF) that it comes back when you have a bio child, too. She sometimes can't help but think how her life might have different if she had been able to get pregnant when she first wanted to. But then, she tells herself, she wouldn't have Frankie. And that's how I feel about Madison. Would I trade her for a bio baby? Hell no. But it's hard to know you'll feel that way before the baby you're adopting shows up. Right now you've only got the loss so hang in there 'til you get the kid.

"3) I am afraid that this kind of thinking might prevent me from adequately praising my child for his/her accomplishments..."

I am no more or less proud of Madison's accomplishments. I spend very little (as in none) time trying to figure out why she's a smart little thing -- is it us? Is it J? It's both, I'm sure. But it's a weird thing about kids -- I don't take credit for Noah's specialness but I do take credit for recognizing and nurturing his specialness. Does that make sense? Same with Madison. My children are who they are but I'll take credit (and share it with Brett) for giving them room to blossom.

Previous Topic
Next Topic
Reply to Msg #395
Back to Topics


Message #442 of 1287  *NEW*
To
From
Subject
Date
AdoptBlog.com Thread
Guest26014 (IP: 152.163.100.71)
Re: Genes versus environment?
4/7/05, 2:38pm
Rob, I'm the "stranger" who posted another comment. I'm honestly not a stalker, but just have not registered yet! We have 2 fabulous children who we adopted. I haven't figured out the nature versus nurture thing completely yet. Each child came with their own personality, but it is shaped by their environment for sure. My son is very much like his birth mother in personality, but is able to grow up in a much more stable environment than her. Our daughter is likely to grow up to be a movie star (and I'm only half kidding, because it really wouldn't surprise me), but all of her adoptive parents and birth parents are pretty shy and wondering how she came out to be absurdly outgoing (not to mention unusually beautiful). I'm wildly proud of my children. They are my heart! I know that I wouldn't be any prouder if I could take credit for their genetics. They are just my kids, and that's all there is to it. Oddly enough, both kids look a lot like me. In fact, I've had people think I am joking about them being adopted. So don't be terribly surprised if fate sends you a child who looks like either you or your wife. It happens so often that it is somewhat spooky. You're going to think your kid is the best in the world; just wait. Your blog will probably get nauseating once you're a parent - just kidding - LOL!!

Previous Topic
Next Topic
Reply to Msg #442
Back to Topics


Message #444 of 1287  *NEW*
To
From
Subject
Date
Rob Reed
Robert Jones  
Re: Genes versus environment?
4/10/05, 12:14am
I don't have any kids of my own. I have been a teacher and I have owned several dogs that I have raised. I have always maintained the same philosophy whether I am dealing with people or animals.

My dogs I raise like I would a child. I lavish praise on them and openly tell them that I love them. I praise them for good behavior and I am stern but none-the-less loving when they misbehave. I do not typically use food as reward for training purposes but I do use praise and a certain tone of voice to communicate either satisfaction or dissappointment with behaviors. I have found that the same technique is effective either for animals or children. My dog K.C. really keys in to my tone of voice and is always eager to receive praise.

When I was a teacher I taught Special Education. Special Ed is a label that covered everything from behavior to a variety of learning disorders. I was passionate about teaching and about the well-being and the self-perceptions of my students. I had to take a stands often for my students. Sometimes this involved taking a stand when issues arose between students and their peers and sometimes it involved taking a stand against an administration that was more concerned about the financial impact they were facing from the implications of the standardized FCAT test that measured the effectiveness of the school.

Because the FCAT was only measured on mainstream students, the resources of the school were predominately spent toward the mainstream classrooms. Also my tenure started in October and the school year was well underway and materials had been scavenged and horded by other teachers.

My job not only involved taking charge of the classroom and overcoming some horrendous misbehavior issues by the students I was taking charge of...it also involved assessing the student's specific educational needs, where the currently were and where they needed to be. I also had to become tremendously resourcefull in tracking down spare texts and teaching materials.

With the misbehavior issues I had to develop a fair, stern stance in dealing with the kids. The best tool I found for dealing with this was incorporating parental assistance. After I had a couple of student phone their parents and describe their misbehavior with me standing by my problems with misbehavior began to subside... In fairness I would also communicate with parents when their child had displayed exceptional behavior as well. I believed in counseling with the kids regarding their behaviors and having them discuss with me why their behaviors was wrong.

I took the time to learn the interests and talents of my students. I would attempt to incorporate this knowledge into my lesson planning and try to assign problems that incorporated elements of these interests and talents into the lessons and problems I assigned.

I developed an aerospace theme for my classroom and brought in, at my own expense, replica minature aircraft that I would hang in the class from the ceiling in realistic action positions. I also brought in models and posters of spaceflight for inspiration to the kids to illustrate the impossibillity of some of mankind's acheivements and to teach them that with imagination and ambition that anything is possible. A letter to the the headquarters of the Airforce Thunderbirds also yielded a poster signed by the pilots of the demonstration team as a gift to the classroom.

I went to war with the administration because they had painted the label of the classroom on the door "Special Education". I was unsuccessful in getting them to remove the label. Those kids did not need to be singled out as being different. I let them know that the written label was an insult to my kids and although they may have different needs that they did not need to be labeled before the entire student body as being different.

Although I was unsuccessful in getting the label removed, my decor and additions to the classroom gave all of the students a sense of pride in their room. They often brought in their mainstream student friends to show them their room. Some of these students would often come back to visit own their own and bring in their friends to show them. The community is near a couple of military bases, Navy and Airforce. Many of the students had parents that were in the military. I even had a student from another classroom bring in his dad, who was in the Airforce, to show him our room.

Another technique that I developed with this theme was that I would make some subtle additions or changes to the decor or placement of the decor. The students learned to be aware of their surroundings and look for changes. They would memorize the location and the items themselves and it became a game for them to be the first to point out a change. This was helpful especially to some of my ADD kids.

Before long I had teaching materials...I had the love and respect and the appropriate behavior of my kids...They had a sense of pride in their classroom and learning was fun for them. They wanted to come to school. I would take the time to work one on one with each of my kids and I had rapport with them. I also opened a communication line and had established rapport with and support from the parents. I took the initiative to arrange field trips. I also incorporated and searched for learning games to incorporate into my teaching.

I tried to take advantage of every teaching moment that would arise. I would offer assistance and would try to guide and allow the students to reach logical conclusions (correct answers) to some of the questions they may have regarding their assignments.

Regarding the nature vs nurture arguement...I believe that some of us are predisposed to be better at some things than others either by coincidence or genetics but I beleive that with imagination and motivation we all have unlimited potential. With my students I let them know that I believed in them and I made every effort to encourage them to believe in themselves.

--------------------------------------------------------
Friends are the best collectibles
--------------------------------------------------------

Previous Topic
Next Topic
Reply to Msg #444
Back to Topics

This message has been added to these RRBBS++ Blogs:

Robert Jones's Blog


Message #542 of 1287  *NEW*
To
From
Subject
Date
Rob Reed
Guest8377 (IP: 144.139.133.46)
Re: Genes versus environment?
10/1/05, 6:51am
Searching for Nature vs Nurture stuff for a speech I am doing I wound up on your blog. I adopted my son out when he was born and he came back into my life when he was 30 years old (after losing babies at birth he searched for me to see if there were medical gene problems (there weren't) However it brought us together something I had not ever expected but welcomed when it happened. I found my son had very high intelligence and had in fact blitzed it at school and he had been Dux in High School. His father and I barely finished school. His parents were both in the medical field we were what used to be termed blue collar workers. I am sure he would not have been the success he was had he been able to stay with us. He told me he'd had a wonderful life with parents who loved and supported his every move. I believe they made him what he was a lovely young man. Shortly afterwards I holidayed with him and his wife as well as my two younger sons and the resemblance was remarked on in fact he said it was like looking in a mirror and he had some little mannerisms which his wife picked up that we all had, but that was about it.

I guess what I am trying to say is that what you do as their parents will have a lasting impression on your children for the rest of their lives so you can and must take credit for your wonderful adopted children.

And one day should they want to search for their Mum please remember hearts hold a lot of love and there is enough to go around without taking any away from you

I have not registered as I dont believe I will do this again (talk on a blog,) but I just thought you might like to hear an older view)

Previous Topic
Next Topic
Reply to Msg #542
Back to Topics

RRBBS© Software, designed by Robert Reed.
Copyright, November, 2002. All Rights Reserved.

Site Meter