In the ChatRoom: Guest41666 User : Guest46331 (38.107.191.114) Posts : 0 Read Mode : Topics Status : Guest   RRBBS Stats ~ Sign-Up As New User ~ Message Areas ~ FAQ

Message #119 of 196  *NEW* To From Subject Date All Rob Reed   Bible Study is Back: Exodus 1-14 5/24/07, 11:28am (Last Edited: 5/24/07, 11:29am) Sorry for the delay with this... but let's continue on! We have a long weekend, so there is plenty of time to get through this initial part of exodus. PLUS, if you have seen the Ten Commandments, this will just be a refresher course. Let's plan on finishing this portion by Monday, May 28, 2007. Who is with me?!?!?!? If you don't have a Bible, you can find all of Exodus here: http://www.online-literature.com/bible/Exodus/ -------------------------------------------------------- "Treat the Earth not as if it was given to you by your parents, but as if it was lent to you by your children." - Kenyan Proverb "The power of accurate observation is often called cynicism by those that do not have it." - George Bernard Shaw -------------------------------------------------------- • Previous Topic • Next Topic • Reply to Msg #119 • Back to Topics This message has been added to these RRBBS++ Blogs: Rob Reed's Blog RRBBS Bible Study Group 's Blog

Message #120 of 196  *NEW* To From Subject Date Rob Reed Larry Levy   Re: Bible Study is Back: Exodus 1-14 5/24/07, 2:53pm Count me in!! Maybe it will explain why Moses didn't lead our ancestors to Saudi Arabia. Oil beats milk and honey -------------------------------------------------------- " I lift up mine eyes to the hills, whence cometh my help.", Psalm 121 -------------------------------------------------------- • Previous Topic • Next Topic • Reply to Msg #120 • Back to Topics

Message #121 of 196  *NEW* To From Subject Date Rob Reed Marie Reed   Re: Bible Study is Back: Exodus 1-14 5/25/07, 10:14pm You know that I'm a lazy reader, as much as I want to go through this with ya. How about reading to me and AJ? I will TRY to get with the program. As you know, having a baby around makes it harder to do some of the things you like to do. But, I'm not complaining! I LOVE my new little responsibility. And thank God he's staying asleep right now, cuz I wouldn't be on here typing this. • Previous Topic • Next Topic • Reply to Msg #121 • Back to Topics

Message #122 of 196  *NEW* To From Subject Date Rob Reed Rob Reed   Re: Bible Study is Back: Exodus 1-14 5/29/07, 8:23am (Last Edited: 5/31/07, 9:30am) My notes on the latest assignment, Exodus 1-14: 1) Aaron gets the bad rap: Moses is, interestingly enough, cowardly and undesirous of a role as the leader of the Hebrews and the advocate to get the Jews out of bondage. Of course, this is greatly contrary to the brave Charlton Heston -- and where is Moses' girlfriend? :) Aaron does most of the dirty work, too, in fact. It is Aaron who goes along with Moses and works the staff. Charlton Heston, it seems, should have been Aaron! :) 2) Why the need to harden Pharoah's heart? This one is a favorite critique of Atheists against the Bible... doesn't this make God seem tortuous? Why would God want to harden the Pharoah's heart and make the Jewish people's bondage that much WORSE? 3) Ron Wyatt, controversial, amateur "archeologist" allegedly found some artifacts, supporting the Exodus story. It is possible this is a fraud, but it is still interesting. 4) Where did the notion of Moses as an Egyptian/Prince and commander come from, if it is not mentioned in the Bible? Josephus, actually, who wrote a History of the Jewish People in the first century. Interestingly enough, he also accounts for the story of Jesus (Josephus, however, apparently did not believe that Jesus was the Messiah). 5) Here is something you didn't see Charlton Heston do... Exodus 4:24-26 -- the Lord was about to kill Moses because his son was not circumcised, so Zipporah (Moses' wife) does it then and there on the way back to Egypt. Worse, the claim is that she placed the foreskin at Moses' feet which, according to the notes of my NIV Bible, states that "feet" is probably a euphemism for "genitals." Yikes. -------------------------------------------------------- "Treat the Earth not as if it was given to you by your parents, but as if it was lent to you by your children." - Kenyan Proverb "The power of accurate observation is often called cynicism by those that do not have it." - George Bernard Shaw -------------------------------------------------------- • Previous Topic • Next Topic • Reply to Msg #122 • Back to Topics

Message #123 of 196  *NEW* To From Subject Date Rob Reed Larry Levy   Re: Bible Study is Back: Exodus 1-14 5/29/07, 2:43pm Hi, Rob, I did a little research on Exodus 7:13. There seems to be a difference in the various translations. One version says that "Pharaoh's heart was hardened, as God had said." These translations seem to indicate that God was saying to Moses and Aaron, "See, I told you Pharoah was going to be subborn about this." I tend to agree with this view, rather than that God was vengeful. -------------------------------------------------------- " I lift up mine eyes to the hills, whence cometh my help.", Psalm 121 -------------------------------------------------------- • Previous Topic • Next Topic • Reply to Msg #123 • Back to Topics

Message #124 of 196  *NEW* To From Subject Date Rob Reed Rob Reed   Re: Bible Study is Back: Exodus 1-14 5/30/07, 5:10pm Did you know? The Quran even has a reference to Exodus, which I didn't really know, and I find very interesting. From Chapter 10 (I believe Muslims call it Sura 10): 75. Then after them sent We Moses and Aaron to Pharaoh and his chiefs with Our Signs. But they were arrogant: they were a people in sin. 76. When the Truth did come to them from Us, they said: "This is indeed evident sorcery!" 77. Said Moses: "Say ye (this) about the truth when it hath (actually) reached you? Is sorcery (like) this? But sorcerers will not prosper." 78. They said: "Hast thou come to us to turn us away from the ways we found our fathers following,- in order that thou and thy brother may have greatness in the land? But not we shall believe in you!" 79. Said Pharaoh: "Bring me every sorcerer well versed." 80. When the sorcerers came, Moses said to them: "Throw ye what ye (wish) to throw!" 81. When they had had their throw, Moses said: "What ye have brought is sorcery: Allah will surely make it of no effect: for Allah prospereth not the work of those who make mischief. 82. "And Allah by His words doth prove and establish His truth, however much the sinners may hate it!" 83. But none believed in Moses except some children of his people, because of the fear of Pharaoh and his chiefs, lest they should persecute them; and certainly Pharaoh was mighty on the earth and one who transgressed all bounds. 84. Moses said: "O my people! If ye do (really) believe in Allah, then in Him put your trust if ye submit (your will to His)." 85. They said: "In Allah do we put our trust. Our Lord! make us not a trial for those who practise oppression; 86. "And deliver us by Thy Mercy from those who reject (Thee)." 87. We inspired Moses and his brother with this Message: "Provide dwellings for your people in Egypt, make your dwellings into places of worship, and establish regular prayers: and give glad tidings to those who believe!" 88. Moses prayed: "Our Lord! Thou hast indeed bestowed on Pharaoh and his chiefs splendour and wealth in the life of the present, and so, Our Lord, they mislead (men) from Thy Path. Deface our Lord, the features of their wealth, and send hardness to their hearts, so they will not believe until they see the grievous penalty." 89. Allah said: "Accepted is your prayer (O Moses and Aaron)! So stand ye straight, and follow not the path of those who know not." 90. We took the Children of Israel across the sea: Pharaoh and his hosts followed them in insolence and spite. At length, when overwhelmed with the flood, he said: "I believe that there is no god except Him Whom the Children of Israel believe in: I am of those who submit (to Allah in Islam)." 91. (It was said to him): "Ah now!- But a little while before, wast thou in rebellion!- and thou didst mischief (and violence)! 92. "This day shall We save thee in the body, that thou mayest be a sign to those who come after thee! but verily, many among mankind are heedless of Our Signs!" 93. We settled the Children of Israel in a beautiful dwelling-place, and provided for them sustenance of the best: it was after knowledge had been granted to them, that they fell into schisms. Verily Allah will judge between them as to the schisms amongst them, on the Day of Judgment. 94. If thou wert in doubt as to what We have revealed unto thee, then ask those who have been reading the Book from before thee: the Truth hath indeed come to thee from thy Lord: so be in no wise of those in doubt. -------------------------------------------------------- "Treat the Earth not as if it was given to you by your parents, but as if it was lent to you by your children." - Kenyan Proverb "The power of accurate observation is often called cynicism by those that do not have it." - George Bernard Shaw -------------------------------------------------------- • Previous Topic • Next Topic • Reply to Msg #124 • Back to Topics

Message #126 of 196  *NEW* To From Subject Date Larry Levy Rob Reed   Re: Bible Study is Back: Exodus 1-14 5/31/07, 9:41am >Hi, Rob, > >I did a little research on Exodus 7:13. There seems to be a >difference in the various translations. One version says that >"Pharaoh's heart was hardened, as God had said." These >translations seem to indicate that God was saying to Moses and >Aaron, "See, I told you Pharoah was going to be subborn about >this." > >I tend to agree with this view, rather than that God was >vengeful. Excellent point. Me, too. Another difficulty I have here is the free killing by God of even young children. It is impossible to argue FOR God in this regard, other than to be callous and take the attitude that what can create should be able to take away. This, of course, can get one into trouble on the issue of abortion, if one is pro-life for religious reasons. EXCEPT, I would argue, that the Creator who created us to be able to procreate is the ultimate Creator of all. Still, I am an advocate of pro-choice. Judgment is left alone to God. Especially after dealing with infertility issues, it is harder for me to fathom destroying a life growing inside you (I am not 18, anymore, lol)... but I shouldn't be able to force that decision on someone. I see many religious people take up the torch on these issues of arguing for God on things that are pretty much indefensible for us to argue (i.e., killing babies). I am sure I will touch on this again as we trudge through the Bible, but I think we -- who believe in the Bible (either in full or partially) -- and those who preach should learn three important words: "I don't know." How can a God who is merciful and loving kill babies? I don't know. And, in fact, that is the plain truth. -------------------------------------------------------- "Treat the Earth not as if it was given to you by your parents, but as if it was lent to you by your children." - Kenyan Proverb "The power of accurate observation is often called cynicism by those that do not have it." - George Bernard Shaw -------------------------------------------------------- • Previous Topic • Next Topic • Reply to Msg #126 • Back to Topics

Message #127 of 196  *NEW* To From Subject Date Rob Reed saundrabeach   Re: Bible Study is Back: Exodus 1-14 5/31/07, 11:41am "Another difficulty I have here is the free killing by God of even young children. It is impossible to argue FOR God in this regard, other than to be callous and take the attitude that what can create should be able to take away." This very thought was and is mine since I was seven years old in Catholic school. I questioned the nuns, and was told "Just Believe and have Faith" that is the answer I always got to my constant questions. Better they should have said "I do not Know..."sometimes would have perhaps helped me in my quest of understanding God's ways. Who are we to question God? Well, he is our "Father in Heaven" therefore our concept of a parent is to be able to ask and question. At least that is how I felt was natural in the raising of my brood. It is a "good thing" that human parents that create (by the grace of God) children, do not have the ability to "take away" their creations (kids) legally or in God's eyes! That being if and when they are dismayed and/or displeased with the actions of their progeny. Whew. Thinking about teenagers here. Yes, then we have the Susan Smith's here that allowed her beautiful little boys to drown, etc. My direct feeling here is that somewhere along the line, Catholic school indoctrination, or single nun's preaching, I was told as a little girl that God allowed "Satan" or whatever name befits your knowledge of him...told God, probably acting like a teenager, that he could get ALL Mankind to worship him! To simplify a long story, God said "Go ahead, and try!" That is the mess we find ourselves living in. I cannot possibly believe that God is controlling our system of things in the NOW. No parent could stand by and allow the innocent to be tortured and murdered, especially our children. What do you think? -------------------------------------------------------- TREAT OTHERS LIKE YOU WANT TO BE TREATED WELCOME EACH NEW DAY! Just When Your Children Are Fit To Live With, They Are Living With Someone Else! -------------------------------------------------------- • Previous Topic • Next Topic • Reply to Msg #127 • Back to Topics This message has been added to these RRBBS++ Blogs: saundrabeach 's Blog

Message #129 of 196  *NEW* To From Subject Date Rob Reed Larry Levy   Re: Bible Study is Back: Exodus 1-14 6/1/07, 2:42pm >Another difficulty I have here is the free killing by God of >even young children. It is impossible to argue FOR God in >this regard, other than to be callous and take the attitude >that what can create should be able to take away. > >This, of course, can get one into trouble on the issue of >abortion, if one is pro-life for religious reasons. EXCEPT, I >would argue, that the Creator who created us to be able to >procreate is the ultimate Creator of all. God takes lives everyday. I like to think he takes then not out of vengence, but for a good reason. I think sometimes, he sees a larger purpose in taking a life. For example, Janice's brother would never have been able to go to medical school had it not been for his father's life insurance policy. His father passed suddenly right before Alan started applying to med school. His mom never would have been able to afford sending him had it not been for the life insurance money. Alan is now the head of the Trauma Center at a regional medical center in Kentucky. Who knows how many lives he has saved. One thing is fairly certain, he wouldn't have saved any if he wasn't able to go to medical school. -------------------------------------------------------- " I lift up mine eyes to the hills, whence cometh my help.", Psalm 121 -------------------------------------------------------- • Previous Topic • Next Topic • Reply to Msg #129 • Back to Topics

Message #130 of 196  *NEW* To From Subject Date saundrabeach Larry Levy   Re: Bible Study is Back: Exodus 1-14 6/1/07, 2:46pm Hi, Saundra, How I come to grips with such tragedies as the Smith children or 9/11 is that God gives all of us free will. Sometimes people use that free will in bad ways. -------------------------------------------------------- " I lift up mine eyes to the hills, whence cometh my help.", Psalm 121 -------------------------------------------------------- • Previous Topic • Next Topic • Reply to Msg #130 • Back to Topics

Message #131 of 196  *NEW* To From Subject Date saundrabeach Rob Reed   Re: Bible Study is Back: Exodus 1-14 6/5/07, 2:18pm >This very thought was and is mine since I was seven years old >in Catholic school. I questioned the nuns, and was told "Just >Believe and have Faith" that is the answer I always got to my >constant questions. Better they should have said "I do not >Know..."sometimes would have perhaps helped me in my quest of >understanding God's ways. The Bible is replete with instances of people challenging God or questioning God. It is not a sin to have doubts or to challenge or question God, as far as my interpretation of the Bible. Take Ecclesiastes 3: 12 I recognized that there is nothing better than to be glad and to do well during life. 13 For every man, moreover, to eat and drink and enjoy the fruit of all his labor is a gift of God. 14 I recognized that whatever God does will endure forever; there is no adding to it, or taking from it. Thus has God done that he may be revered. 15 1 What now is has already been; what is to be, already is; and God restores what would otherwise be displaced. 16 And still under the sun in the judgment place I saw wickedness, and in the seat of justice, iniquity. 17 And I said to myself, both the just and the wicked God will judge, since there is a time for every affair and on every work a judgment. 18 I said to myself: As for the children of men, it is God's way of testing them and of showing that they are in themselves like beasts. 19 For the lot of man and of beast is one lot; the one dies as well as the other. Both have the same life-breath, and man has no advantage over the beast; but all is vanity. 20 Both go to the same place; both were made from the dust, and to the dust they both return. 21 Who knows if the life-breath of the children of men goes upward and the life-breath of beasts goes earthward? 22 And I saw that there is nothing better for a man than to rejoice in his work; for this is his lot. Who will let him see what is to come after him? This sounds a lot like "live life to the fullest now because we have no idea what is going to happen." This is right in the Bible. It isn't the message that the chapter ultimately conveys, however, but it is noteworthy. Or, the entire book of Job. Job is always questioning God. While his cohorts are telling him that his problems are all because he isn't doing right in the eyes of God and that he is being punished by God, God reprimands these "friends," finding the doubter and questioner, Job, as speaking "what is right" about God. Chapter 42m verse 7: After the LORD had spoken these words to Job, the LORD said to Eli'phaz the Te'manite: "My wrath is kindled against you and against your two friends; for you have not spoken of me what is right, as my servant Job has. 8: Now therefore take seven bulls and seven rams, and go to my servant Job, and offer up for yourselves a burnt offering; and my servant Job shall pray for you, for I will accept his prayer not to deal with you according to your folly; for you have not spoken of me what is right, as my servant Job has." >My direct feeling here is that somewhere along the line, >Catholic school indoctrination, or single nun's preaching, I >was told as a little girl that God allowed "Satan" or whatever >name befits your knowledge of him...told God, probably acting >like a teenager, that he could get ALL Mankind to worship >him! > >To simplify a long story, God said "Go ahead, and try!" This is only the story of Job that you are describing. It wasn't directed at all mankind. >I cannot possibly believe that God is controlling our system >of things in the NOW. No parent could stand by and allow the >innocent to be tortured and murdered, especially our >children. > >What do you think? I agree. As Larry said, it is a system of free will. Without the ability to discern God for ourselves, in my view, we are merely robots going through motions. We aren't "true" souls, we are merely following scripts. And, that is not a life worth living, as far as I am concerned. -------------------------------------------------------- "Treat the Earth not as if it was given to you by your parents, but as if it was lent to you by your children." - Kenyan Proverb "The power of accurate observation is often called cynicism by those that do not have it." - George Bernard Shaw -------------------------------------------------------- • Previous Topic • Next Topic • Reply to Msg #131 • Back to Topics

Message #132 of 196  *NEW* To From Subject Date Rob Reed saundrabeach   Re: Bible Study is Back: Exodus 1-14 6/7/07, 5:40pm I agree. As Larry said, it is a system of free will. Without the ability to discern God for ourselves, in my view, we are merely robots going through motions. We aren't "true" souls, we are merely following scripts. And, that is not a life worth living, as far as I am concerned. While basically I agree with your last point. I have problems with "Free will" and what mankind has done with it. I do not think that is what God had in mind. Too bad really we are left with so many questions and no answers except by interpretting the Bible which is not state of the art. But then think of the Constitution...it needs updating too doesn't it. Sometimes I would like "do overs" or more guidance along the way. I wonder if in the Lord's Prayer: They kingdom come on EARTH as it is in HEAVEN...might mean living on a new clean earth without war, jealousy and sin. Now wouldn't that be something! I think I have voiced this before, but I would feel more comfortable on the above referenced earth than floating around with wings in heaven. Sort of like in my favorite movie "Defending Your LIfe" with Albert Brooks would be ok too. -------------------------------------------------------- TREAT OTHERS LIKE YOU WANT TO BE TREATED WELCOME EACH NEW DAY! Just When Your Children Are Fit To Live With, They Are Living With Someone Else! -------------------------------------------------------- • Previous Topic • Next Topic • Reply to Msg #132 • Back to Topics

RRBBS© Software, designed by Robert Reed. Copyright, November, 2002. All Rights Reserved.