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Message #1421 of 2187  *NEW*
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Shon Wells
John Glenn
9/9/05, 10:58am (Last Edited: 9/9/05, 1:55pm)
WHAT SENATOR JOHN GLENN SAID

Things that make you think a little:

There were 39 combat related killings in Iraq in January.
In the fair city of Detroit there were 35 murders in the
month of January. That's just one American city,
about as deadly as the entire war-torn country of Iraq.

When some claim that President Bush shouldn't
have started this war, state the following:

a. FDR led us into World War II.

b. Germany never attacked us; Japan did.
From 1941-1945, 450,000 lives were lost
an average of 112,500 per year.

c. Truman finished that war and started one in Korea.
North Korea never attacked us.
From 1950-1953, 55,000 lives were lost ...
an average of 18,334 per year.

d John F. Kennedy started the Vietnam conflict in 1962.
Vietnam never attacked us.

e. Johnson turned Vietnam into a quagmire.
From 1965-1975, 58,000 lives were lost .
an average of 5,800 per year.

f. Clinton went to war in Bosnia without UN or French consent.
Bosnia never attacked us.
He was offered Osama bin Laden's head on a platter three
times by Sudan and did nothing. Osama has attacked us on
multiple occasions.

g. In the years since terrorists attacked us , President Bush
has liberated two countries, crushed the Taliban, crippled
al-Qaida, put nuclear inspectors in Libya, Iran, and North
Korea without firing a shot, and captured a terrorist who
slaughtered 300,000 of his own people.

The Democrats are complaining
about how long the war is taking.
But .
It took less time to take Iraq than it took Janet Reno
to take the Branch Davidian compound.
That was a 51-day operation.

We've been looking for evidence for chemical weapons
in Iraq for less time than it took Hillary Clinton to find
the Rose Law Firm billing records.

It took less time for the 3rd Infantry Division and the
Marines to destroy the Medina Republican Guard
than it took Ted Kennedy to call the police after his
Oldsmobile sank at Chappaquiddick

It took less time to take Iraq than it took
to count the votes in Florida!!!!

Our Commander-In-Chief is doing a GREAT JOB!
The Military morale is high!

The biased media hopes we are too ignorant
to realize the facts

But Wait there's more!

JOHN GLENN (ON THE SENATE FLOOR)
Mon, 26 Jan 2004 11:13

Some people still don't understand why military personnel
do what they do for a living. This exchange between
Senators John Glenn and Senator Howard Metzenbaum
is worth reading. Not only is it a pretty impressive
impromptu speech, but it's also a good example of one
man's explanation of why men and women in the armed
services do what they do for a living.

This IS a typical, though sad, example of what
some who have never served think of the military.

Senator Metzenbaum (speaking to Senator Glenn):
"How can you run for Senate
when you've never held a real job?"

Senator Glenn (D-Ohio):
"I served 23 years in the United States Marine Corps.
I served through two wars. I flew 149 missions.
My plane was hit by anti-aircraft fire on 12 different
occasions. I was in the space program. It wasn't my
checkbook, Howard; it was my life on the line. It was
not a nine-to-five job, where I took time off to take the
daily cash receipts to the bank."!

"I ask you to go with me .. as I went the other day...
to a veteran's hospital and look those men .
with their mangled bodies .. in the eye, and tell THEM
they didn't hold a job!

You go with me to the Space Program at NASA
and go, as I have gone, to the widows and Orphans
of Ed White, Gus Grissom and Roger Chaffee...
and you look those kids in the eye and tell them
that their DADS didn't hold a job.

You go with me on Memorial Day and you stand in
Arlington National Cemetery, where I have more friends
buried than I'd like to remember, and you watch
those waving flags

You stand there, and you think about this nation,
and you tell ME that those people didn't have a job?

What about you?"

For those who don't remember ...
During W.W.II, Howard Metzenbaum was an attorney
representing the Communist Party in the USA.

Now he's a Senator!

If you can read this, thank a teacher.
If you are reading it in

English thank a Veteran.

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"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us." -Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Message #1423 of 2187  *NEW*
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Shon Wells
Rob Reed  
Re: John Glenn
9/9/05, 2:03pm
graphic
Whoever wrote this thing is the exact, extreme opposite of Michael Moore.

My favorite was trying to lump Clinton going into Bosnia "without permission" with Bush going into Iraq. We went into Bosnia to help enforce a peace treaty... not to fight.

We didn't go into Bosnia for the purpose of stopping ethnic cleansing or find weapons of mass destruction or to even take down a leader we perceived as a threat.

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"Treat the Earth not as if it was given to you by your parents, but as if it was lent to you by your children." - Kenyan Proverb

"The power of accurate observation is often called cynicism by those that do not have it." - George Bernard Shaw
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Message #1424 of 2187  *NEW*
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Rob Reed
vicki  
Re: John Glenn
9/9/05, 6:53pm (Last Edited: 9/9/05, 6:54pm)
graphic
How about the statements about North Korea and Vietnam not attacking us?

Did I miss when Iraq attacked us?

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Do or do not. There is no try.
---Yoda
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Message #1425 of 2187  *NEW*
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Rob Reed
Larry Levy  
Re: John Glenn
9/9/05, 9:00pm
graphic
>Whoever wrote this thing is the exact, extreme opposite of
>Michael Moore.

That's a bad thing?

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" I lift up mine eyes to the hills, whence cometh my help.", Psalm 121
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Message #1426 of 2187  *NEW*
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Larry Levy
Thomas Canty
Re: John Glenn
9/9/05, 9:27pm
>>Whoever wrote this thing is the exact, extreme opposite of
>>Michael Moore.
>
>That's a bad thing?

I'd say so... Both extremes are something I'd prefer to avoid.

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http://www.ldphotography.net/
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Message #1427 of 2187  *NEW*
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Thomas Canty
Larry Levy  
Re: John Glenn
9/10/05, 10:55am
graphic
>>>Whoever wrote this thing is the exact, extreme opposite of
>>>Michael Moore.
>>
>>That's a bad thing?
>
>I'd say so... Both extremes are something I'd prefer to
>avoid.

I agree with you.

I was just pulling Rob's (and other's) chains

--------------------------------------------------------
" I lift up mine eyes to the hills, whence cometh my help.", Psalm 121
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Message #1436 of 2187  *NEW*
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Larry Levy
Rob Reed  
Re: John Glenn
9/11/05, 9:20pm
graphic
>I was just pulling Rob's (and other's) chains

Until you get an FHM spread of your own, you stay away from my chain!

--------------------------------------------------------
"Treat the Earth not as if it was given to you by your parents, but as if it was lent to you by your children." - Kenyan Proverb

"The power of accurate observation is often called cynicism by those that do not have it." - George Bernard Shaw
--------------------------------------------------------

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Message #1438 of 2187  *NEW*
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Rob Reed
Larry Levy  
Re: John Glenn
9/12/05, 9:25am
graphic
>>I was just pulling Rob's (and other's) chains
>
>Until you get an FHM spread of your own, you stay away from my
>chain!

Lol!!! What is an FHM spread?

--------------------------------------------------------
" I lift up mine eyes to the hills, whence cometh my help.", Psalm 121
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Message #1440 of 2187  *NEW*
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Larry Levy
Rob Reed  
Re: John Glenn
9/12/05, 11:01am
graphic
>Lol!!! What is an FHM spread?

LOL... I shouild have known you would be too busy staring at the pictures of Rachel Ray to have any desire to know what magazine those pictures came from.

--------------------------------------------------------
"Treat the Earth not as if it was given to you by your parents, but as if it was lent to you by your children." - Kenyan Proverb

"The power of accurate observation is often called cynicism by those that do not have it." - George Bernard Shaw
--------------------------------------------------------

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Message #1442 of 2187  *NEW*
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Rob Reed
Larry Levy  
Re: John Glenn
9/12/05, 2:04pm
graphic
>>Lol!!! What is an FHM spread?
>
>LOL... I shouild have known you would be too busy staring at
>the pictures of Rachel Ray to have any desire to know what
>magazine those pictures came from.

They came from a magazine?????

--------------------------------------------------------
" I lift up mine eyes to the hills, whence cometh my help.", Psalm 121
--------------------------------------------------------

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Message #1478 of 2187  *NEW*
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Rob Reed
Shon Wells
Re: John Glenn
9/22/05, 3:44pm
>Whoever wrote this thing is the exact, extreme opposite of
>Michael Moore.

Like you said before, they are facts, but I guess that when poiltics get involved everyone gets emotional. This is not the exact opposite, at least these are facts, even the ones that don't make a logical connection, like Kennedy and Clinton timeframe.

>My favorite was trying to lump Clinton going into Bosnia
>"without permission" with Bush going into Iraq. We went into
>Bosnia to help enforce a peace treaty... not to fight.

Correct, we did go in as "peace keeping" but also engaged in the same type of fighting we are involved now in Iraq.

And the idea was that Iraq did not attack us, just as all the other courtries that we did not get attacked from.

Finally, Rob, I never said I was independent. That was never said. I actually said I was probably the most conservative on this site. If you must know I do not consider myself Rep. I do not like alot of the issues they stand for and think that Bush screwed up alot. Where should I start, the farm subsady act, the recent bill passed that just topped the highest pork in the history of the U.S., lets not forget about no child left behind or the fact that Bush has yet to use his Veto power. I do believe in the tax cuts, but that is another argument. My position would probably be catagorized, if it must be, either a constitutionalist or leaning toward a liberterian. I am sure you could get enough attack points out of that.

--------------------------------------------------------
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us." -Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Message #1479 of 2187  *NEW*
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Shon Wells
Rob Reed  
Re: John Glenn
9/22/05, 4:29pm
graphic
>Like you said before, they are facts, but I guess that when
>poiltics get involved everyone gets emotional. This is not
>the exact opposite, at least these are facts, even the ones
>that don't make a logical connection, like Kennedy and Clinton
>timeframe.
>
>>My favorite was trying to lump Clinton going into Bosnia
>>"without permission" with Bush going into Iraq. We went
>into
>>Bosnia to help enforce a peace treaty... not to fight.
>
>Correct, we did go in as "peace keeping" but also engaged in
>the same type of fighting we are involved now in Iraq.

The line in your post says "Clinton went to war" without permission. He never went to war. The fact there is wrong. I thought you knew better, what with that signature of yours and all. LOL

>And the idea was that Iraq did not attack us, just as all the
>other courtries that we did not get attacked from.

Our help was requested from a government. In Iraq, we decided to overthrow their government as a preemptive strike.

I have to take John Glenn's statements to another logical conclusion.

In 1941, Japan was bootstrapped by the U.S. by an oil embargo, affecting their oil supply. They needed to take oil from the Indies... the only line of adequate defense was this U.S. Fleet in Pearl Harbor.

I wonder if John Glenn would be prepared to argue that Japan was therefore justified in attacking Pearl Harbor? It was preemptive, after all... and these are just the facts.

Michael Moore eschews facts to meet his ultimate point. And, as I have said on here before, I recognize that. This post just does more of the same on the other side of the spectrum.

BUT, as it relates to Clinton, the "facts" are just flat-out wrong.

--------------------------------------------------------
"Treat the Earth not as if it was given to you by your parents, but as if it was lent to you by your children." - Kenyan Proverb

"The power of accurate observation is often called cynicism by those that do not have it." - George Bernard Shaw
--------------------------------------------------------

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Message #1483 of 2187  *NEW*
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Rob Reed
Shon Wells
Re: John Glenn
9/22/05, 5:53pm
Okay, let's get some "facts" about it. This is from Mr. Bill Clinton when he made the speech to go to Bosina.

>The line in your post says "Clinton went to war" without >permission. He never went to war. The fact there is wrong. I >thought you knew better, what with that signature of yours and >all. LOL
There are times and places where our leadership can mean the difference between peace and war, and where we can defend our fundamental values as a people and serve our most basic strategic interests. My fellow Americans, in this new era, there are still times when America-- and America alone -- can and should make the difference for peace.

But as the months of war turned into years, it became clear that Europe alone could not end the conflict. This summer, Bosnian Serb shelling turned Bosnia's playgrounds and marketplaces into killing fields. In response, the United States led NATO's heavy and continuous air strikes-- many of them flown by skilled and brave American pilots.

Those air strikes, together with the renewed determination of our European partners and the Bosnian Croat gains on the battlefield, convinced the Serbs, finally, to start thinking about making peace.

Sounds like war to me, but you can call it what ever you want. Forcing people to do something thay don't want to, stopping ethnic cleansing....wow that is something!

>Our help was requested from a government. In Iraq, we decided >to overthrow their government as a preemptive strike.

And who exactly did "invite us into the conflict"?

When I took office, some were urging immediate intervention in the conflict. I decided that American ground troops should not fight a war in Bosnia, because the United States could not force peace on Bosnia's warring ethnic groups: the Serbs, Croats and Muslims.

Instead, America has worked with our European allies in searching for peace, stopping the war from spreading, and easing the suffering of the Bosnian people.

We imposed tough economic sanctions on Serbia. We used our air power to conduct the longest humanitarian air lift in history and to enforce a 'no fly' zone that took the war out of the skies. We helped to make peace between two of the three warring parties: the Muslims and the Croats

Sounds to me like we were "invited" by our European allies and not Bosina. It really seems we forced peace on them and bullied them in a non-declaried war.

here is the web site if you want to read it all, just for fairness. http://www.dtic.mil/bosnia/army/pres_bos.html


--------------------------------------------------------
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us." -Ralph Waldo Emerson
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