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Message #367 of 2187  *NEW*
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Rob Reed  
Bush's Immigration Program
1/7/04, 12:34pm (Last Edited: 1/7/04, 12:37pm)
graphic
I'm trying to make sense of Bush's Immigration program after reading the story of his presentation this morning.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/01/07/bush.immi
gration/index.html

First, there is an emphasis on the program being "temporary." I am left to wonder whether this will be a successful program at all.

If I was an illegal alien, for instance, I probably would not participate... pessimistically viewing this "program" as a means to find me, locate me, keep track of me... so that when the program "ends," I can more quickly be shipped out.

Second, I wonder if there was never a 9/11... would this even be a thought in Bush's mind? Probably not.

There are two motivations at work here, I think. On the one hand, the Bush Administration wants to keep track of everybody in the country, in order to make it easier for Homeland Security to monitor illegals.

The second motivation goes to a comment that BBlast made here this morning. I think that BBlast is exactly right... that Bush "could have a huge contributor in Texas that depends on south-of-the-border labor." This, from the article:

Officials added that employers would have to show they cannot find U.S. citizens to fill their jobs.

I am a believer that this program makes sense... if such "temporary" status can lead to citizenry/permanent resident status. From my reading, it looks like the temporary term is a three year term, with a three year extension possibility.

My problem is that I just hate being bullshitted... this, from the article:

But the U.S. officials said one of the president's goals was to "promote compassion" and get the Congress and the country to "understand the broken system" that now includes an estimated 8 million "undocumented" or illegal immigrants in the United States

Please... spare me.

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Message #372 of 2187  *NEW*
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Rob Reed
Robert Reed  
Re: Bush's Immigration Program
1/8/04, 12:05am (Last Edited: 1/8/04, 12:29am)
graphic
My Dear Son,
As per Pres. Bushes proposed Illegal alien laws:
First of all, there is no such thing as a temporary law.

As per Fed. Govt., "once a law always a law", therefore, in Perpetuity., Witness 1913, the introduction of the Federal Income Tax,A TEMPORARY LAW, Yes, we still do that., it was at the time, temporary, here we are in 2004, STILL PAYING.!!!

Therefore the obvious,

a)Bush is pandering to Big business, in that, "keep wages down at all costs".

b)pandering to the Hispanic vote now, and in the future.

C)He is in love with Vincente Fox,.El Presidente.

d)Keep the democrats on edge, in "pinching" votes away.

e)assuming Republican voters will vote "the party line".

f)A re-run of the "Twilight zone", in that an alien inhabits the body of a U.S. President, in order to gain interplanetary conquest.

g)Gray Davis has entered the body of "Gee Doubleyer", and is up to his old tricks.

H)Geedoubleyer is "having SES (errrr Sex) with Vincente", everyday.!!, loving it, and has no need for Viagra.

i)Vincente Fox say "As Presidente of all of Mehico, I give you best SES of your life, if you will "let my people go".

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Message #373 of 2187  *NEW*
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Rob Reed
BBlast
Re: Bush's Immigration Program
1/8/04, 3:51am
graphic
>Second, I wonder if there was never a 9/11... would this even
>be a thought in Bush's mind? Probably not.

Yea, I think so..only because of 1)Bush was talking about "something" before 9/11 and 2)well..see what I said the other day!

>
>There are two motivations at work here, I think. On the one
>hand, the Bush Administration wants to keep track of everybody
>in the country, in order to make it easier for Homeland
>Security to monitor illegals.

We can only hope.

>
>The second motivation goes to a comment that BBlast made here
>this morning. I think that BBlast is exactly right... that
>Bush "could have a huge contributor in Texas that depends on
>south-of-the-border labor." This, from the article:
>
>Officials added that employers would have to show they
>cannot find U.S. citizens to fill their jobs.

Yea, like U.S. employeers are supposed to check for immigration status and green cards TODAY, under current law. You can see how well THAT has worked out!

>
>I am a believer that this program makes sense... if such
>"temporary" status can lead to citizenry/permanent resident
>status. From my reading, it looks like the temporary term is
>a three year term, with a three year extension possibility.
>

Ok..but then that worker brings up his family..so now we pay this worker in legal wages, and pay for his family's health care AND pay for the kids' education..man, what a deal!!

>My problem is that I just hate being bullshitted... this, from
>the article:
>
>But the U.S. officials said one of the president's goals
>was to "promote compassion" and get the Congress and the
>country to "understand the broken system" that now includes an
>estimated 8 million "undocumented" or illegal immigrants in
>the United States

We KNOW the system is broken..but where is the "fix"? Documenting undocumented workers is one thing....but how about paying up some fed dollars for the a)illegal ones that will still come b)their health care c)their education and d)the draining of other resources such as the prisons and law enforcement.

And IF we do this, will Mexico now start to send us back the murderers that flee to Mexico to avoid the death penalty??

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"All human arrogance and ego can be expressed in two words. 'You Should'. "
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Eat at BBlast's - - Home of the California Brisket Sandwich!

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Message #375 of 2187  *NEW*
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Robert Reed
Thomas Canty
Re: Bush's Immigration Program
1/8/04, 9:57am
>As per Fed. Govt., "once a law always a law", therefore, in
>Perpetuity.,

Like Prohibition?

Welcome back!

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Message #377 of 2187  *NEW*
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Robert Reed
Rob Reed  
Re: Bush's Immigration Program
1/8/04, 11:59am (Last Edited: 1/8/04, 12:00pm)
graphic
>As per Pres. Bushes proposed Illegal alien laws:
>First of all, there is no such thing as a temporary law.

Remember that Japanese prison camp thing, for one?

>Therefore the obvious,
>
>a)Bush is pandering to Big business, in that, "keep wages down
>at all costs".
>
>b)pandering to the Hispanic vote now, and in the future.

But, the method of pandering this vote will hurt him with the conservatives, doncha think?

>e)assuming Republican voters will vote "the party line".

No doubt...

>f)A re-run of the "Twilight zone", in that an alien inhabits
>the body of a U.S. President, in order to gain interplanetary
>conquest.

I just might go with this one... I guess what puzzles me the most is that with 10 months to the next election, it looks like a Bush landslide. Why is this necessary?

--------------------------------------------------------
"Treat the Earth not as if it was given to you by your parents, but as if it was lent to you by your children." - Kenyan Proverb

"The power of accurate observation is often called cynicism by those that do not have it." - George Bernard Shaw
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Message #378 of 2187  *NEW*
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BBlast
Rob Reed  
Re: Bush's Immigration Program
1/8/04, 12:10pm
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>Ok..but then that worker brings up his family..so now we pay
>this worker in legal wages, and pay for his family's health
>care AND pay for the kids' education..man, what a deal!!

I think the plan - in a vacuum - is supposed to work such that the worker gets legal wages... pays taxes on those wages, which would include health care costs.

The plan - again, "in a vacuum" - is assuming that the Mexican worker will go back to his family... provide them with a better wage... so that s/he can make a better life for his/her family in Mexico, which includes education in Mexico. I didn't read that this plan would allow children to come here from Mexico to be freely educated here (with our knowledge, that is).

A few interesting tidbits:

(1) What if a Mexican, female worker is near term pregnancy. She has carte blanche to give birth to a U.S. citizen, no?

(2) A backlash is coming from current illegals (and those who are doing the Mexico-U.S. commute, legally). Competition will increase, affecting those workers' wages.

(3) The only way the plan can work according to the plan, above, is if wages are increased... how else can a Mexican worker make a decent wage after paying taxes and/or health care deductions? This wage increase pretty much defeats the purpose, doesn't it?

I don't know what the right answer is... as this is coming about NOW... and will be passed by next election... only time will tell.

>We KNOW the system is broken..but where is the "fix"?
>Documenting undocumented workers is one thing....but how about
>paying up some fed dollars for the a)illegal ones that will
>still come b)their health care c)their education and d)the
>draining of other resources such as the prisons and law
>enforcement.

You can bet that a portion of this plan will call for SEVERE punishments for employers who hire those WITHOUT proper documentation. This would hopefully deter the hiring of illegals. Then again, my gardener speaks primarily Spanish (as does his crew). I have never checked his immigration status.

Now, I'll have to, perhaps?

>And IF we do this, will Mexico now start to send us back the
>murderers that flee to Mexico to avoid the death penalty??

Sounds like a wonderful condition before passing the law...

--------------------------------------------------------
"Treat the Earth not as if it was given to you by your parents, but as if it was lent to you by your children." - Kenyan Proverb

"The power of accurate observation is often called cynicism by those that do not have it." - George Bernard Shaw
--------------------------------------------------------

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Message #384 of 2187  *NEW*
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Thomas Canty
BBlast
Re: Bush's Immigration Program
1/9/04, 4:52am
graphic
>>As per Fed. Govt., "once a law always a law", therefore, in
>>Perpetuity.,
>
>Like Prohibition?
>
>Welcome back!
>

What? They repealed prohibition??


"Grandma! You don't have to sit by the still all day!!"

--------------------------------------------------------
"All human arrogance and ego can be expressed in two words. 'You Should'. "
-

Eat at BBlast's - - Home of the California Brisket Sandwich!

www.signatureclaims.net

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Message #385 of 2187  *NEW*
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Rob Reed
BBlast
Re: Bush's Immigration Program
1/9/04, 4:56am
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>I just might go with this one... I guess what puzzles me the
>most is that with 10 months to the next election, it looks
>like a Bush landslide. Why is this necessary?

I could be that Bush is THAT good! ....

..or it could be that the democrats have YET to find a decent candidate to go up against him. Dean is acting like he already had the nod from his party....but Dean, to me, is the wrong person for the job!

Edwards and Clark look interesting to me, but I don't think they have a chance in the demo party. We'll see...but like always, it looks like it will come down to voting for the least of 2 evils...again!

--------------------------------------------------------
"All human arrogance and ego can be expressed in two words. 'You Should'. "
-

Eat at BBlast's - - Home of the California Brisket Sandwich!

www.signatureclaims.net

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